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p40 warhawk

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  • Member since
    March 2006
  • From: Right Side of a Left State
Posted by Shellback on Monday, March 14, 2011 3:15 PM

Heres a beaut . It resides at Hill Aerospace Museum , Hill AFB , Utah .

  • Member since
    October 2008
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by oddmanrush on Monday, March 14, 2011 2:00 PM

Hans von Hammer

 

 troublemaker66:

 

Hans-

Any of the Tigers still with us?

 

 

Damned-few, and I'm glad I got to meet the ones I did back in the 80s and 90s...

Here's the current AVG Roster:

Two Pilots:

Ken Jernstedt 

Carl Brown.

Six ground crew

  • Charles Baisden (armorer)
  • Michael Callan (ground crew)
  • David Harris (headquarters staff)
  • Frank Losonsky (crew chief)
  • Kee Jeung Pon (engineering specialist)
  • Joseph Poshefko (armorer) 
  •  Randall Richardson (weatherman)
  • Edward Stiles (crew chief)

 Some Tigers went home early, got a "dishonorable discharge," and for that reason aren't recognized by the Flying Tigers Association.

The other, main reason there are so few left is that the Tigers were mostly drawn from the pool of "Pre-war" pilots and ground personel, guys that had first enlisted in the mid-late 1930s,  hence they tend to be bit older than the "typical", Post-7 December 41 WW2 veterans..

Just read in the paper this past weekend that a Flying Tiger crew man passed away...

News Story Here...

Doesn't give much info about his service but I thought given your recent topic of conversation it was worth noting.

Jon

My Blog: The Combat Workshop 

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Monday, March 14, 2011 1:43 PM

that looks nice, alfaspud.

------------------------

Now that I'm here, where am I??

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Ireland
Posted by alfaspud on Monday, March 14, 2011 12:15 PM

The P-40 is my favourite WW2 warbird, I've built 4 so far! Last one was a what-if.

Keith
  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:51 PM

Anyone know what Tex was flying during the Korean War?

F-84Es...

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:17 PM

Funny thing about Tex Hills carrer he started life in the military as a officer in the US Navy flying TBD-1 Devastators. Anyone know what Tex was flying during the Korean War?

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 5:11 PM

troublemaker66

Hans-

Any of the Tigers still with us?

Damned-few, and I'm glad I got to meet the ones I did back in the 80s and 90s...

Here's the current AVG Roster:

Two Pilots:

Ken Jernstedt 

Carl Brown.

Six ground crew

  • Charles Baisden (armorer)
  • Michael Callan (ground crew)
  • David Harris (headquarters staff)
  • Frank Losonsky (crew chief)
  • Kee Jeung Pon (engineering specialist)
  • Joseph Poshefko (armorer) 
  •  Randall Richardson (weatherman)
  • Edward Stiles (crew chief)

 Some Tigers went home early, got a "dishonorable discharge," and for that reason aren't recognized by the Flying Tigers Association.

The other, main reason there are so few left is that the Tigers were mostly drawn from the pool of "Pre-war" pilots and ground personel, guys that had first enlisted in the mid-late 1930s,  hence they tend to be bit older than the "typical", Post-7 December 41 WW2 veterans..

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 9:28 AM

Hans in the man... he has the info... Yes lol

 

OWL.., its a captured P-40E, that when the Japs captured it, they left the nose art from the Americans. The bird head, feathers, were  hand painted by the americans.. then I replicated the markings with my airbrush and and some hand painting.. here's the thread..

/forums/t/123669.aspx

 

 

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 9:26 AM

Agreed! thanks for the info! I've only seen these things at EAA once a year...

  • Member since
    January 2010
  • From: Nebraska, USA
Posted by CallSignOWL on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 9:09 AM

That's really cool info, hammer. I'd love to be around these old warbirds!

p38: what is the story behind that P40 with the Japanese meatballs on it?

and here is a recent P40 of mine. A MK.1 Kittyhawk of the RAF--with the all important shark mouth! in 1/72 scale)

 

------------------------

Now that I'm here, where am I??

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Southern New Jersey
Posted by troublemaker66 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 9:07 AM

Hans-

Any of the Tigers still with us?

Len Pytlewski

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 9:01 AM

The P-40N we fly in the CAF is Green ZC inside there.... I don't remember if it was Tex (BG David Lee Hill) that finally decided for us on the CAF APM Board (Authenticity, Paint, and Markings) or not, but we were stopped dead on that issue until he made the call, lol.. It was after all, "His" P-40 we were doing (although it's not an AVG bird, it's an N-model)...

'Course, here's the best of both worlds, Red..

Then-Captain David Lee "Tex" Hill mounting his P-51B, shortly after the group started transistioning to the Pony..  (Still wearing the Flying Tigers blood chit on his jacket, and you can see a 75th FS P-40E in the background.)

 Tex Hill was one of the guys what flew the P-40B and E models up against the Japanese, back during a time where a simple box of .50 cal firing solenoids grounded the Hell's Angels Squadron (3rd Sqn, AVG). He transitioned form the P-40 to the Mustang, and is believed to be the first Mustang pilot to shoot down a Zeke.... He was also one of only five former AVG pilots that stayed on after the USAAF swallowed up the Tigers into the 23 FG in July of '42.. Tex passed away in '07 at the age of 92 and is still sorely missed at Staff Call.

I dunno how that guy got in a Mustang, he was 6' 6" if he was an inch, lol......  I'm 6'1" and have a helluva time fitting in a Mustang.. 'Course, the B/C model's a bit roomier than the D/K is.. I've only done a 'pit check-out and run-up in the D....

The last aircraft the 23 FG (Now known as the 23rd Wing flew was the A-10, tail-code "FT" (Flying Tigers), and last I knew they were based at Moody AFB..

Sorry I got so long-winded fellers... Reckon it's because Tex was a friend, and someone had earlier mentioned Mustangs and 'Hawks in the same breath , lol...

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 8:49 AM

ah.. the P-40... very nice bird.. and now for something completely differant..[View:/themes/fsm/utility/Photobucket:550:0]

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Southern New Jersey
Posted by troublemaker66 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 8:40 AM

They`re not teaching history like they used to in school. Another thing comes to mind...My grandfather used to say...children should be seen, not heard...I told him I didn`t agree...came to an hour later...lol.

Len Pytlewski

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 7:39 AM

Ohhhhh..... I have been skewered. I will now take 17 hours to reevaluate my life. :P Forgot you were posting in this thread... :P I will say though, I am a fan of revell-o-grams when it comes to jets, or for a quick fun build.

 

Dark grey? never seen pics of that color in the radiator...

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 5:47 AM

Wink

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 5:45 AM

Boba Fett

 I ust started a P-40 "kittyhawk" today. 1/48 Hase kit. (brit desert version) And might I say it's about 1,000,000 times better than the revell-o-gram?

           Oh, now why did you have to go there?

                                         

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Launceston, Australia
Posted by the real red baron on Monday, March 7, 2011 10:27 PM

personally i go for a dark grey colur but its up to you

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2008
  • From: Wherever the hunt takes me
Posted by Boba Fett on Monday, March 7, 2011 9:52 PM

I think your impression is slightly skewed... The P-40 is in no way "forgotten" as it is probably one of the most famous WWII fighters due to the flying Tigers. Underappreciated would be a far better term...

 

Now, since Matt or Aaron will swoop down with the lock if we don't get some models in here QUICK... I ust started a P-40 "kittyhawk" today. 1/48 Hase kit. (brit desert version) And might I say it's about 1,000,000 times better than the revell-o-gram? It's amazing how far kits have come... wow. I'll get some pics up, but I did have a question: In that big radiator scoop under the nose, is the interior the, "interior green" color? I have pics from 2 real birds at an airshow, and 1 is green, the other Black. ??? And clarification on that?

  • Member since
    April 2008
  • From: Fox Lake, Il., USA
Posted by spiralcity on Monday, March 7, 2011 9:10 PM

the real red baron

 Jeebus:

Forgotten!!, I think not, never, not in my lifetime, ain't happening. it's one of the most famous warplanes of all time, i'll prolly forget my own name before i forget the Warhawk.

 

i meant that more people have heard of the spitfire and the perfetic p51.   and even the wildcat

and yet they still dont know the real workhorse the P40 WARHAWK

http://flyboy1966.webs.com/P40%20Warhawk.jpg

 

this post was made do P40 warhawk lovers can share cool p40 pics and info

 

Well I have a different view than yours.

The Flying Tigers are well celebrated and looked upon with great admiration. The P-40 is well known and respected.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Monday, March 7, 2011 8:08 PM

Hans von Hammer

Hmmm... Wonder how the Merlin-engined Warhawk would fare against an Allison-engined Mustang at say, 10,000 feet ASL down to the deck...

 

 

I've read that in the CBI many pilots were reluctant to leave their P-40s for the P-51. Probably a case of leaving a well known proven aircraft for something new, but does point out that those pilots did not feel they were flying an inferior aircraft in desperate need of replacement.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Allentown, PA
Posted by BaBill212 on Monday, March 7, 2011 7:30 PM

Almost forgotten?

I think not.......       one of the most known fighter groups of any campain...  Flying Tigers

 

The P-40 will always be well known and respected

Enjoy the ride!

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, March 7, 2011 7:02 PM

Warned ya...Wink  The P-51A/A-36/Mustang MkI and IA was in combat with the same Allison engine the P-40 had, initially, as did the P-39, and P-38, Herr Baron...

Little trivia.. Initially, the A-36 had no official nickname.. The pilots took to calling it "Invader" until the AAF decided on "Apache"...

Hmmm... Wonder how the Merlin-engined Warhawk would fare against an Allison-engined Mustang at say, 10,000 feet ASL down to the deck...

 

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Monday, March 7, 2011 5:54 PM

Hans von Hammer

Best check yer fire, kiddo... The P-51 WAS used in the MTO, under the guise of the A-36 Apache, kid...

 

 

You are correct, the A-36 arrived in North Africa in April 1943, and the Afrika Corps surrendered in May 1943. Just goes to show how scary the P-51 is. Big Smile 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Sunday, March 6, 2011 7:31 PM

Best check yer fire, kiddo... The P-51 WAS used in the MTO, under the guise of the A-36 Apache, kid...

 

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Launceston, Australia
Posted by the real red baron on Sunday, March 6, 2011 7:06 PM

ok then i agree i got worked up a bit this post was created so we can share cool pics of this plane not debate it

YesPizza

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Sunday, March 6, 2011 2:09 PM

the real red baron

ohh and if i offened you im sorryWink

i just dont like people making fun of my favourite plane

 

It's okay Baron. I wasn't trying to belittle the Warhawk. Please reread my posts and you'll read that I never downplayed it the way you might have interpreted. Smile

If you haven't seen the John Wayne classic "Flying Tigers", get it. It was of course a propaganda film, but had lots of great footage of the P-40. The shark's mouth as we all know is classic. "Tora Tora Tora" and Pearl Harbor also have some nice P-40 footage as well.

Just to be a little more proactive here, are you currently building or built one? Let's check her out. Yes

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Sunday, March 6, 2011 12:14 PM

F-8fanatic

Consider it like this--I like to look at the "what-if" theory.  What if there was no P-47 or P-51?  The Warhawk could never have performed their roles nearly as well.  But, if the 47's and 51s had to perform the Warhawk's roles, could they have done as well?  They would have actually done better.  There's your answer.

 

From a sheet of paper and prototypes?  Stick out tongue Big Smile

The first P-47 combat mission occured in March 1943, the P-51B entered production in 1943, and didn't began escort missions until January 1944.

With those time spans you need to be looking at:

P-40Q which did have a supercharger for high altitude flight at 422 mph, and could have been in production by 1944.

P-60C (P-40 with an R-2800 radial engine) which had a supercharger and could do 405 mph at high altitude. It could have been in production in 1943/44

P-63 (improved P-39) which had a supercharger and could do 410 mph at 25,000 feet.

These became foot notes because by that time the P-47 was in service and offered even better performance with a top speed of 433 mph, and the P-51 was entering service with a top speed of 433 mph and exceptional range. The older aircraft were finally breaking 400 mph, as the new breed approached 500.

The P-36 / P-40 design was 6 years old, and had been in service for 2 years when the P-51 was first dreamed up by North American.

The P-47 was more evolutionary originating with the P-35, then P-43 and finally P-47, but it was a major improvement (the reason for the new designation). It's earlier relatives were notably inferior to the P-40 and not used in quantity (about 300 total). 

So sure, the P-47, P-51 could have done the job better, but that is kind of like comparing the P-51 to the F-84 as a WW2 air superiority fighter, better but it simply didn't exist in that time frame.  

The Spitfire and Me-109 came from the same time period but saw continual development, while the P-40 peaked in 1943 when the USAAF wisely adopted newer designs with more long term growth potential, that would not cause an interuption of P-40 production. Somehow for many "something even better" has translated to the P-40 was a turd.

  • Member since
    January 2009
Posted by F-8fanatic on Sunday, March 6, 2011 3:17 AM

the real red baron

 

 tigerman:

 

 

 the real red baron:

 

 

 

 

I'm not a huge fan of the P-51 myself,

but your comment about the P-40 won the war was just a bit strong

 

 

 

firstly about you not being a fan of the p51 congrats the p51 is my worst favourite plane

"and i did not say the p40 won the war" i said if it weren't for the p40 the allies might not have won the war

 

dude, you really need to calm down a notch or four.....this is certainly not an argument that is worth getting this worked up over. 

Also, you did NOT say "might not have won the war".  Heres your quote:

"i personally think that if it werent for this plaen the allies wouldn't have won the war"

For someone who is so bent out of shape about this debate, you havent even been honest....you really shouldnt take this so seriously that you act in this manner.

And your assessment, with all respect, is wrong.  The P-40 only defeated Japanese Zeros by use of tactics early on, against the newer, better Japanese planes those tactics would not have worked nearly as well.  And you really need to think about this--the Hellcat racked up the most kills at a time when a plane that could outperform the Japanese was sorely needed.  The Warhawk would not have possibly been able to take out that many planes as the F6F did.  Which means that the Pacific war would have lasted longer....with the Japanese not getting nearly as beaten as they did.  In Europe, consider the P-40 against the FW-190....the Reich was only defeated because we gained air superiority over Germany, so our bombers could continue to drop bombs.  The Warhawk could never have made it as a high-altitude escort.  Remember now, our bombing campaign was very nearly stopped completely in 1943-44....so the Warhawk would not have changed that.  That bombing campaign contributed as much as the fighters did to cutting down the available number of German combat aircraft and weaponry, if not more.

 

Consider it like this--I like to look at the "what-if" theory.  What if there was no P-47 or P-51?  The Warhawk could never have performed their roles nearly as well.  But, if the 47's and 51s had to perform the Warhawk's roles, could they have done as well?  They would have actually done better.  There's your answer.

Oh, and about the Wildcat, many people do not know this, but the FM-2 variant, flying from escort carriers, actually had the highest kill ratio of any allied fighter of the war.  Of course, this was primarily because they did not usually go up against fighters, but it still shows the ongoing contribution that the old Wildcat made.

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