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B-24J Liberator 'The Dragon and His Tail'

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  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Friday, March 25, 2011 6:00 PM

Don't forget Hawkins & Powers, they had several PB4Y-2's flying as air tankers for decades. Not sure when they started using them, but sometime in the 70s and they kept them flying until 2002 when an accident grounded them. At one time I think they were flying 5 or 6 of them (Tanker 121-126). They must have saved dozens of warbirds from the scrap heap over the years, P2V Neptunes, A26 Invaders, C119s, KC97s were all used for a time and many ended up on the auction block when the company closed in 2005.

  • Member since
    February 2011
Posted by Sawdustbob on Friday, March 25, 2011 4:55 AM

Just a quick thanks to all the great folks who responded to my post.  Sorry I dodn't get back to you all sooner, I had some health issues.

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, March 10, 2011 8:17 PM

According to their website, the Collings Foundation B-24J, B-25J, and B-17G are all based at New Smyma Beach, FL, along with their A-36, TP-51C, and Me 262 .

The CAF has several units in general DFW area, but the B-17s are based in Houston (Texas Raiders) and Mesa, AZ (Sentimental Journey).. The B-29/B-24 Sqn HQ is in the Dallas area, as well as the Corsair Sponsor Group, plus the Ranger Wing in Waco has their A-26 there..

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Southern New Jersey
Posted by troublemaker66 on Thursday, March 10, 2011 11:27 AM

Pepper-

Sounds like the Collings Foundation trio. Hans posted a picture above.

Len Pytlewski

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Garland, TX
Posted by pepper kay on Thursday, March 10, 2011 11:22 AM

stikpusher

Or you could use the South Park spelling/pronunciation' , "B yatch"...Wink

OK who flies this B-24? I took this pic last year when it flew over my house, along with a B-17. I know they are due in town again soon... They fly in at the same time every year.

Spelling duly noted ! ...

Here in the Dallas area, we have a -24, -17 and a -25 - don't know if their CAF or Collings -  come in every year to the Addison Airport, home of a great flyable Warbird Museum ... makes for an exciting weekend seeing them, plus any number of Mustangs, Corsairs, Texans and assorted other warbirds crusin' over my house ... I always make a trip to the airport as you can park within 100' of the end of the main runway and get some fabulous stills and video ...

Love the sound of those Merlins and the roundy round engines  ...

Never have taken a ride - too rich for my blood - but would love to do so ... have had rides in P-51's though, way back when ...

pepper

dmk
  • Member since
    September 2008
  • From: North Carolina, USA
Posted by dmk on Thursday, March 10, 2011 9:33 AM

Gotta love the CAF.  It must cost a ridiculous amount of time and money to keep those wonderful old birds flying.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Southern New Jersey
Posted by troublemaker66 on Thursday, March 10, 2011 7:13 AM

Here`s a close-up of that stab....

 

Here`s some other pics of Collings` birds at NAS Wildwood, NJ....

 

...Nine `o Nine...B-17G....

 

In lieu of Tondelayo, they sent this P-51 C last year...

Len Pytlewski

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, March 10, 2011 6:05 AM

That's Collings' "Witchcraft"... Here she is with their B-17 "909" and B-25 "Tondelayo"...

We (CAF) got those guys outnumbered with B-17s and B-25s, too... Plus "FiFi" as a trump card, lol...

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 10:38 PM

Or you could use the South Park spelling/pronunciation' , "B yatch"...Wink

OK who flies this B-24? I took this pic last year when it flew over my house, along with a B-17. I know they are due in town again soon... They fly in at the same time every year.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 10:06 PM

pepper kay

 pepper kay:

Also, I've seen the Strawberry *** - an early model Lib ...

pepper

 

Oooops !! ... shoulda said the 'Strawberry ***' ...

pepper

Gotta space those words or he Nannybot gets ya, Pepper.. "Strawberry B itch"

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Garland, TX
Posted by pepper kay on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 9:00 PM

pepper kay

Also, I've seen the Strawberry *** - an early model Lib ...

pepper

Oooops !! ... shoulda said the 'Strawberry ***' ...

pepper

  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Garland, TX
Posted by pepper kay on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 8:57 PM

I use Tamiay Titanium Silver for NMF finishes ...

Also, I've seen the Strawberry *** - an early model Lib ...

pepper

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Gateway to Cape Cod MA
Posted by jb4406 on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 3:39 PM

Collings foundation first flew their B-24 as "All American" then changed scheme to "Dragon & Tail" then changed again to "Witchcraft".

"The difficult, I do  right away. The impossible will take a little longer."

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 7:14 AM

Sounds like you guys pulled out the rulers a couple of times...Big Smile

LOL.. Yeah, it happens all the time... It's even worse in the Fighter Community, round motors vs liquid-cooled, ya know...

We've (the "Gunfighter" Clan) been in practically a state of war with the Bearcat guys in the SoCal Wing...

That`s a really nice painting of old 927 on a bomb run....

That's no painting... She's coming off the "Ploesti" bomb-run at Midland...

Here's the second pass.. Not as spectacular though..

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Southern New Jersey
Posted by troublemaker66 on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 7:08 AM

The " All American" I`m talking about wasn`t in dual disguise. I`ll have to look it up but I`m pretty sure that pilot wasn`t pulling my leg. I`ll get to talk to him again in August , at NAS Wildwood`s Airfest. Sounds like you guys pulled out the rulers a couple of times...Big Smile

That`s a really nice painting of old 927 on a bomb run....guess they threw the bombs out the windows...Propeller

Len Pytlewski

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 6:23 AM

Yeah, those Collings guys were rather uppity, since, according to them,  theirs was a "real" B-24, & ours was just an LB-30 with a "D" nose...  However, the CAF has had a Liberator in the air far longer than anyone else, since 1967.

"Diamond Lil" was originally the 18th of an order of 20 LB-30s for the RAF.  It was damaged in an accident on it's delivery flight to Canada from Willow Run in 1941, brought back to the States, and converted to a company transport... It flew a scheduled route from New York to Ft Worth to San Diego, and was serialed as AM-927, where it became known as "Old 927".   It was sold to PEMEX after the war, and the flew it as an exec transport until the CAF bought it in 1967.  In 1971, she was put in the colors of the 9th AF 98th Bomb Group, and flew practically every year since... 

 

A few years back, after about 30 years of trying to get her restored to her original B-29A configuration, the proper rear turret (the same turret that went into RAF Lancasters) was finally located, and the waist gun-positions installed, along with rebuilt nav and bombardier positions.  "Diamond Lil" was then repainted in her original RAF Export scheme and re-named "Old 927"...

Although it can't be rebuilt to include a bomb bay, it's close enough... So while them clowns at Collings are bragging up their J, we got the oldest and, more importantly, continously-flying  B-24... Plus, it's one-of-a-kind as a B24A... She's also a "Movie Star", as Paul Newman's ride in Fat Man and Little Boy...

Oh, yeah... Did I mention there's been a little rivalry between Collings and the CAF B-29/B-24 Sqn? It's all good-natured though... Lol...

 

I see those decals on Ebay every now and then...give ya a shout next time I see `em.

Yeah, I'd dig that.. But only if they're 1/48th..

....was a 2nd plane...had America in it`s name...NMF..

I think you may be referring to the 2nd half of  Collings Witchcraft's  "split personality" .. She was "All American" on the port side, "The Dragon and his Tail" on the starbord side...

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Southern New Jersey
Posted by troublemaker66 on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 5:09 AM

Hans von Hammer

 troublemaker66:

Cool slideshow. Wonder how old those pics are? I think the only airworthy B-24 these days is "Witchcraft"...a Collings foundation bird.

 

I think there are actually two, plus one PB4Y-2 Privateer..."Tanker 121", which just returned to the sky last month.

The CAF's  B-24A, "Ole 927" is airworthy (I flew on her occasionally back when she was still C-84/LB-30  "Diamond Lil") and has been almost completely restored to her original B-29A configuration... 

I REALLY want the "Dragon's" decals in 1/48th...

I guess it was about 2yrs ago when I had a nice conversation with the pilot of Witchcraft. At that time the big deal was that they had the only flying B-24...there was a 2nd plane...had America in it`s name...NMF...had an accident and was relegated to static display.  If there`s 2 more out there, awesome...didn`t know. I think the NMF bird was the Great American...can`t remember...someone will straighten me out..lol.

I see those decals on Ebay every now and then...give ya a shout next time I see `em.

Len Pytlewski

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, March 9, 2011 1:22 AM

troublemaker66

Cool slideshow. Wonder how old those pics are? I think the only airworthy B-24 these days is "Witchcraft"...a Collings foundation bird.

I think there are actually two, plus one PB4Y-2 Privateer..."Tanker 121", which just returned to the sky last month.

The CAF's  B-24A, "Ole 927" is airworthy (I flew on her occasionally back when she was still C-84/LB-30  "Diamond Lil") and has been almost completely restored to her original B-29A configuration... 

I REALLY want the "Dragon's" decals in 1/48th...

  • Member since
    July 2010
Posted by jbrady on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 10:16 PM

troublemaker66

Cool slideshow. Wonder how old those pics are? I think the only airworthy B-24 these days is "Witchcraft"...a Collings foundation bird.

Don't know how old those pics are but judging by the hair, clothes, and the guy with the digital camera I'd say those shots came from the mid 90's or later.

   

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 10:15 PM

The slide show is definitely a modern restored warbird. Not the original Dragon.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Southern New Jersey
Posted by troublemaker66 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 10:15 PM

kirk4010

 troublemaker66:

Cool slideshow. Wonder how old those pics are? I think the only airworthy B-24 these days is "Witchcraft"...a Collings foundation bird.

 

My understanding is that they were taken just after the war, just prior to being cut up for scrap.

I figured the 2 B&W pics were post war but I was talking about the link posted of some airshow. Some good shots of the nose art.

Len Pytlewski

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Right side of the Front row.
Posted by kirk4010 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 9:44 PM

troublemaker66

Cool slideshow. Wonder how old those pics are? I think the only airworthy B-24 these days is "Witchcraft"...a Collings foundation bird.

My understanding is that they were taken just after the war, just prior to being cut up for scrap.

The art of war is simple enough. Find out where your enemy is. Get at him as soon as you can. Strike him as hard as you can, and keep moving.-Ulysses S. Grant
  • Member since
    July 2007
  • From: Southern New Jersey
Posted by troublemaker66 on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 7:58 PM

Cool slideshow. Wonder how old those pics are? I think the only airworthy B-24 these days is "Witchcraft"...a Collings foundation bird.

Len Pytlewski

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 7:12 PM

Aluminum is the color. Tamiya makes a superior shade over Model Master Acrylic. As you can see from this photo of the real original aircraft, it was fairly well maintained.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2010
  • From: New Zealand
Posted by Scorpiomikey on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 6:09 PM

you can use foil for the surface. Are you brush painting or spraying?

Spraying, alot of people swear by aluclad(i think thats it) but brush painting, if your patient, X-11 is quite good. and humbrol 011 silver produces quite a good finish. Both these can also be sprayed for a good reslt too.

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Recite the litanies, fire up the Gellar field, a poo storm is coming Hmm 

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  • Member since
    February 2011
B-24J Liberator 'The Dragon and His Tail'
Posted by Sawdustbob on Tuesday, March 8, 2011 5:45 PM

I recently got a old Minicraft kit of theB-24J Liberator 'The Dragon and His Tail' at a flea market for $3.00.  I have started working on my paint list and have worked out everything but the fusalage color.  The instruction sheet just says 'natural metal'.  I was wondering if anybody had any color recommendations for me.  I prefer to use Tamiya and Model Master Acrylics when possible.  I did find a slide show of the plane.  http://www.ww2-airshows.lone-wolfs-den.com/images/B-24/index.html

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