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F-4 phantom colors SEA

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  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Chipley FL
F-4 phantom colors SEA
Posted by urich on Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:11 AM

I may have asked this question before if so sorry I"m getting old and I'm having to write things down any more to remember

My question for the day I ’m trying  to work on one of my many projects and I’m having problems with finding the right color schemes for F-4 phantoms in SEA colors I found 3 sites and all the colors don’t match but one. I have over 100 bottles of paint in my work area and I'm betting I don't have all the colors and I just spent 40 bucks at the HL the other night. thanks J 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:54 AM

i believe you're talking about a USN or marine bird? if so, your looking at gull gray over insignia white.

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Chipley FL
Posted by urich on Sunday, August 05, 2012 11:54 AM

Sorry  I should have been more specific USAF

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, August 05, 2012 1:07 PM

USAF Birds originally went to Vietnam in 1965 in the same scheme as their Navy/Marine Corps cousins, Gull Gray over White. Soon they were starting to receive a camo scheme of Dark Green 34079, Medium Green 34103, and Tan 30219 0ver Lght Gray 36622. That was the standard scehem from late '65 until the withdrawl of US forces. A few F-4s had the light gray bottom painted black for night operations.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    February, 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Sunday, August 05, 2012 2:06 PM

USAF camo would be

-camouflage gray FS36622

-dark tan  FS30219

-dark green

-medium green FS34102

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Chipley FL
Posted by urich on Sunday, August 05, 2012 2:21 PM

Thanks I might have found the problem I use MM paints and I have all the colors listed the problem is some sites are calling the 34079 field green not dark green  Field green is listed as 34097 medium green 34102, dark tan 30219,and the  gray is called camo gray 36622  

  • Member since
    February, 2011
  • From: Monterey Bay,CA-Fort Bragg, NC
Posted by randypandy831 on Sunday, August 05, 2012 2:59 PM

i think some numbers changed over time.

tamiya 1/48 P-47D $25 + shipping

tamiya 1/48 mosquito $20+ shipping

hobby boss 1/48 F-105G. wings and fuselage cut from sprue. $40+ shipping. 

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Sunday, August 05, 2012 3:01 PM

More to the point color names mean squat in paint

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, August 05, 2012 3:36 PM

urich

Thanks I might have found the problem I use MM paints and I have all the colors listed the problem is some sites are calling the 34079 field green not dark green  Field green is listed as 34097 medium green 34102, dark tan 30219,and the  gray is called camo gray 36622  

Rely on the FS numbers and not the paint names. It sounds like they were mis identified. Field Green is usually listed as 34097, which is not a clor commonly used by the Air Force in that time period. And yes another name for Gray 36622 is Camouflage Gray.

This site has an excellent database on aircraft color schemes. Click on the appropriate letter such as "F" for the F-4 Phantom and then click on F-4 Phatom when it appears in the drop down menu. In the "colors and markings" section on that menu, the various paint schemes with their FS numbers and patterns are listed.

http://www.cybermodeler.com/resource1.shtml

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Chipley FL
Posted by urich on Sunday, August 05, 2012 4:59 PM

Stikpusher you just became my hero. Great site will use it alot Thanks.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, August 05, 2012 5:38 PM

Aw shucks... I know I just spend too much time online...Embarrassed

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • From: Philippines
Posted by constructor on Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:47 PM

I will be following up on this post. I am also building an F4-C/D for the GB. It is getting more confusing by the posts coming in.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 05, 2012 9:56 PM

These colors are about right, I recon:

 

Jet

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:10 PM

Actually it would be more brown than tan so either Tamiya Nato brown or even Model Master Earth brown would work.

I am working on a Hasegawa 1/72 F-4E right now that is going to be in SEA camoflage and right now I started on the Stabilators and have all the colors on but only have 2 of the colors pictured since I shot the brown color on a couple minutes ago and will get a pic of that when it dries.

Stabilator with NMF added

BTW there was a goof on the upper portion that I fixed prior to adding the faded olive drab which is my medium green portion of the camoflage.

Stabilator with Model Master Faded olive drab color.

Stabilator with Tamiya Nato Green added as the second shade.

I am trying to get as close to the camoflage pattern as I can on the stabilators as these will be added last so I can add them to the plane when I finish assembling and painting the rest of the kit to avoid ruining things.

randypandy831

USAF camo would be

-camouflage gray FS36622

-dark tan  FS30219

-dark green

-medium green FS34102

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:16 PM

So the Spookies did have slime lights in Nam so I don't have to eliminate the slime lights from my build.Wink

Manstein's revenge

These colors are about right, I recon:

 

 

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:25 PM

The slime lights were on F-4s at the time of the Linebacker campaigns in 1972. For a Rolling Thunder Phantom ('65-'68) slime lights are a no go.

Just curious, but why are you going with faded OD and NATO Green when the Vietnam colors are so widely available?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:26 PM

constructor

I will be following up on this post. I am also building an F4-C/D for the GB. It is getting more confusing by the posts coming in.

What are you confused about there constructor?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, August 05, 2012 10:41 PM

Here are a few of the real birds from that era to look at for reference

and in the beginning

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Monday, August 06, 2012 3:07 AM

I don't understand any confusion about SEA colors

all four are listed on this page, and they are the same 4 used for any USAF aircraft painted after the initial deployments of various gray aircraft (the gray aircraft could be considered confusing, some were Naval gray instead of USAF colors)

www.cybermodeler.com/.../f-4_profile02.shtml

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Monday, August 06, 2012 4:35 AM

I used Nato Green and Faded Olive Drab as that is what I have available and they actually do match up to the pictures color wise  I just need to grab the right brown as the Nato brown actually looks more like Vietnam earth than anything else.

stikpusher

Here are a few of the real birds from that era to look at for reference

 

 

 

 

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, August 06, 2012 2:18 PM

In theTamiya line I would suggest their Flat Earth. It is reasonably close (just a tad bit dark to my eye) to DarkTan 30219.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Kincheloe Michigan
Posted by Mikeym_us on Monday, August 06, 2012 2:36 PM

I definitely have that color in stock. Makes you wonder why MacNamara ok'd the SEA paint scheme when that scheme worked everywhere else except Vietnam with its red ground. A fighter with light brown/tan in it's camo pattern would stick out like a sore thumb if spotted from up high by a Mig. I guess it is sort of like that discussion in the Figures section about the Chocolate Chip pattern Camo fatigues it worked everywhere else except Saudi Arabia and Iraq.

stikpusher

In theTamiya line I would suggest their Flat Earth. It is reasonably close (just a tad bit dark to my eye) to DarkTan 30219.

On the workbench: Dragon 1/350 scale Ticonderoga class USS BunkerHill 1/720 scale Italeri USS Harry S. Truman 1/72 scale Encore Yak-6

The 71st Tactical Fighter Squadron the only Squadron to get an Air to Air kill and an Air to Ground kill in the same week with only a F-15   http://photobucket.com/albums/v332/Mikeym_us/

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, August 06, 2012 3:33 PM

Actually from what I have read, the SEA camo was fairly effective at low altitude in the hazy weather conditions that were prevelant there. And the soild does actually vary in tone from sand to brown to red,depending upon the area. The Dark Tan was probably the best middle gound color. I beleive that it would have been Air Force brass and not MacNamara who ok'd the camo scheme. No need for that decision to have been made that high up the food chain.

As a side note on the Chocolate Chips, they were designed when the most likely Desert/Middle East area of intervention was going to be Iran. Which is a much rockier desert in many areas. Not the dune seas of Saudi The main scenario of those days was a Soviet drive to get a arm water port on the Persian Gulf or the Arabian Sea. That's when the whole RDF (Rapid Deployment Force) concept came about with XVIII Airborne Corps and certain Marine units designated for first response to that part of the world. The pre positioned equipment at Diego Garcia was for this scenario.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: Carmel, CA
Posted by bondoman on Monday, August 06, 2012 4:05 PM

www.f-100.org/hun003.shtml

Different airplane- same colors.

  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: Cameron, Texas
Posted by Texgunner on Monday, August 06, 2012 9:38 PM

stikpusher
As a side note on the Chocolate Chips, they were designed when the most likely Desert/Middle East area of intervention was going to be Iran. Which is a much rockier desert in many areas. Not the dune seas of Saudi The main scenario of those days was a Soviet drive to get a arm water port on the Persian Gulf or the Arabian Sea. That's when the whole RDF (Rapid Deployment Force) concept came about with XVIII Airborne Corps and certain Marine units designated for first response to that part of the world. The pre positioned equipment at Diego Garcia was for this scenario.

Thanks for that most interesting information stik.  Cool stuff to know.

Gary


"All you mugs need to get busy building, and post pics!"

  • Member since
    July, 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by 72cuda on Monday, August 27, 2012 2:38 PM

Urich,

 Heres a great referance for USAF Colors up until 1990's, Google this USAF T.O. 1-1-4 and down load (might need to download Adobe to see it) it will cover most colors of USAF Aircraft from Vietnam to mid 90's

84 of 795 1/72 Aircraft Competed for Lackland's Airman Heritage Museum

Was a Hawg Jet Fixer, now I'm a FRED Fixer   

 'Cuda

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