Need advice from the Luftwaffe guru's

Learning is my favorite part of this hobby. You get to grow, expand your capabilities, and refine your skills. There's always something that you learn on one build that helps you with the next. And I think we ALL look forward to the next one !

Thanks, Pix

I wouldn't have done it that way without your advice. I really like the way it's coming along.

I'm in the decaling phase right now, but having a few issues with that, as I don't have a complete set for this bird. A combination of different sets and making my own will get me there eventually.

Man, I'm learning a LOT on this build!

thanks again,

stinger

Looking great, stinger ! Nicely "worn" canopy framing. Luftwaffe schemes are interesting to begin with, and the winter camo adds so much. REALLY looking forward to this one !!!

Cool pics Jeff... those make me want to do a winter scheme on a Luftwaffe bird!

Here's the photos as requested. The first photo is actually not winter, nor is it a Do-17z, but it was posted just to demonstrate the way the engine exhausts stained the upper wing surfaces on a llight colored aircraft. Jeff

Hey Stinger, its lookin' good! I like your pics..The how-to pics.

Jeff - yes, I got the pics this morning and they will really help. Thanks very much. As I said in my return email, I have three more of these old Monogram kits, so there is still room to improve if I don't get it right this time. (Time, though, that's another thing......)

Nick - thanks, buddy. BTW, I checked, and some of the decals are SuperScale. I'm having to borrow the insignia's from an Eagle Strike set for the "Deadly Dorniers" which are actually Do217's, but they will work for this bird.

stinger

stinger your bird is looking even better now!! great job on the canopies!!
jeff, could you post those pics on this thread please? i'd love to see them.
regards,
nick

I just sent you 4 photos of the upper surfaces of KG3 Do-17s taken in the winter of '41/42.

Check your email.

Jeff

Ok; here's the latest.......

I had already started painting the canopy for an all white paint job, and progress was slow with my method of masking and painting frame members one at a time.
The canopy and nose section in the background are for another of the same model in a normal scheme.



So here is the result of about three hours of remasking. I need to get a magnifier for this next time.



I completely resprayed with the two color green first, and then tried to pretend that I was a field crewman with a spray gun trying to reach the areas that I could with the white overspray, but keeping in mind the areas that erosion would affect,
Before removing the mask, I dampened a wide brush with lacquer thinner and brushed it with quick strokes from front to back over the whole thing, concentrating on the main front area and the radome to enhance the wind erosion.


Hopefully I can get the decals on by Wednesday evening.
I haven't even touched the props, engines, and undercarriage, let alone the cockpit!

Many thanks to those who have responded by email with advise and help.

We'll see how this goes.

stinger

Pix - Good you got that post in there before I went out to the dungeon to paint. Thankfully, I only have a few canopy frames painted in white so far, so it won't be too big a deal to remask and shoot a bit of camo, and for the rest of the canopy, I'll keep the mask on for shooting both colors.

Gotcha on the wind erosion areas. There's a big teardrop radome right on top that would be the perfect place to start.

Once again, Thanks!

stinger

I think that the touch of camo here & there on the canopy frames will look good, especially on the areas that will recieve wind erosion, and panels that slide open. The panels on top, in the center probably received less paint (think about a ground crewman climbing up there, & carefully painting the frames, the plexiglass unable to support his weight). I feel that the key to a successful winter camo is achieving a non-uniform appearance. These guys were out in the cold Russian winter painting these planes ! Anyone that does that can be considered a hero, in my opinion, regardless of country of birth.

Now I'm REALLY looking forward to this one, stinger !

Thanks again, AJ!

Pix, I really appreciate your advice and you following along on this thread.

I was really leery of throwing on the insignia backgrounds, but now I like it. It really gives it a "dirty" field applied look that seems so much more natural. I always thought that just putting the markings directly onto the white would look a bit weird.

Oh yeah, Pix, one more question if you don't mind...
The canopy on this thing is a masking nightmare. I'm doing it basically one frame section at a time, with only the white. The only closeup photo I have shows it that way, but do you think the frames should still have a touch of camo here and there?

I'm going for a coat of Future on it today. I'll be skiing this weekend, so the Future should be pretty well cured for the decals on Monday.

I really appreciate everyone's advice and support. Look for another update around Monday or Tuesday.

stinger

Looks great, stinger ! Its relly looking like a field-applied camo. Your changes have brought together the colors to a consistent unity, rather than areas of separation. This will be a real beauty, I have every confidence in your ability to make this a realistic-looking model. Great job, and keep up the good work !

Looks good Stinger, I really like the improvements... this is going to be a sweet looking bird.

Here's an update

Man, I hope I'm doin' this right! (And it's about 20 deg. F in my garage!)

I sprayed some dark green on the areas that Pix suggested. The national insignia decal is not actually on the model, it's just there to make sure that I had enough area covered. The yellow band is actually a remask with Tamiya yellow tape that has not yet been removed. I may have overdone it on the fuselage a bit, but I can come back and blend in some more white after the decals are on.


Pix, I went ahead and blended the white into the blue before I saw your last post, but I'm glad you agree. I'll have to come back and bring the blue back into the white to get back to a more "natural" line, meaning that it's all a bit too low right now. Wish I hadn't spent all that time yesterday making the masks for the first coat of white!


I decided not to "background" for the swastikas on the tail, as I think they'll stand out better against the white, and I have a feeling that the ground crew would take the time to repaint those anyway due to their 'Party Pride' such as it was.

Pix - thanks for the compliments. It means a lot coming from a great modeler such as yourself.

Yes, stinger, I think that breaking up the hard edged white/ blue will line will make your camo job look even better. If you look at your shot from below, notice how thet one spot of "underlying" camo really makes the leading edge? You can retape your demarcation line, apply RLM 70 & 71, then touch up with white later. It will look fine whichever way you choose, I just think that breaking up the hard edge white/ blue line will be more convincing.

With a model looking as fine as that one, I would hardly call you an ameture, as you called yourself. Give yourself more credit, that's a great looking model !

AJ - Thanks. This one is going much better than my first.

Nick - I'm using a combination of different brand aftermarket decals. I'm pretty sure Superscale is one of those sets. I'll check later today and let you know. I have so many, I can't remember.

stinger hi
your dornier looks cool!
i built that plane in battle of britain markings which came out pretty good (are the decals you're using from superscale? i think i have some winter ones somewhere as well)...although i remember the kit's landing gear was a beast!! wish you better luck than i had!!
pix, can't wait to see that stuka finished!!
regards,
nick

Thanks again Pix

I understand now what you mean regarding the Nat. insignias and the yellow band. Perhaps the demarcation between the white upper and the 65 bottom should be blended at bit also? I think it should not have such a crisp line between the upper and the blue lower, am I right?

Thanks for adding the link. I saw that pic on one of your earlier posts. It looks awesome. Will the Stuka have a yellow fuse band also?
I also understand why you paint your scheme in the order you do. It makes sense to repeat what was originally done. I tried that way on a piece of scrap, though, and didn't like my results, so for my amateurish ability, doing the white first was easier.

I really appreciate your advice.

Great looking bird Stinger... that's some really effective camo. Can't wait to see it done.

stinger - I edited my post to include a link to a pic of my Stuka before decals.
Yes, I spray the complete RLM 70/71 over 65 first, then the white. Its more work this way, but, since the actual AC was painted in this manner, I do the same. I just like the way it looks, and I don't mind the painting (my FAVORITE part of Luftwaffe AC !)

Spraying the base camo around the area of the codes will look good. Chances are, in the Russian winter, the crews would probably have avoided repainting anything that they could. After the decals are applied, you can also give a shot of white over the top of the fuselage band (Yellow will show up from the air against the snow). I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out for you. Good luck !

Thanks, fightnjoe - I'm anxious myself for this to turn out well.

Thanks Pix - I was hoping you would answer to this.

When you say to spray the basecoat, do you mean the 70, 71 colors? And on the yellow band, should I place the code letters and do a bit of white around and maybe tight up to them, with the white slightly intruding in the letters and the band?

I can't wait to see the Stuka. You are quite the modeling machine lately, and they all look so great. Don't know how you do it!

does look good singer. look forward to seeing the finished build.


joe

Looks convincing so far, stinger. For the national markings, though, I would spray the base color in the areas where they will be. Cover an area slightly larger than the wing crosses & yellow fuselage band. That way, it will appear that the winter white was sprayed around the markings. If you put the decals over the white as you have it now, they will look like they were repainted after the white camo was added. Stencils on the real aircraft were probably overpainted, but things like warnings & fuel "triangles" were probably repainted after the camo. Just some suggestions.

When I paint a winter camo, I apply the regular camo first, then overspray with white. For national markings, I'll mask off the areas first & spray around them. My Stuka will be done in a couple of days, you can see what I mean then.

Looking good so far !

This is what I mean about spraying around the markings :

http://rongeorge.com/albums/upload/WinterCoat.sized.jpg