F-15E load advice

The GBU-24 IS carried on Strike Eagles for certain types of missions. You're basically talking about a 2000 lbs. warhead of either the 'standard' Mark 84or 'penetrating' BLU-109 type with one of the Paveway III kits attached.

Thanks Jamie.

Now I have to figure out what load of these babies I want to put on it.

Mike

Hey mike;
if you want to model an OIF bird like the ones I've seen flying about Iraq they carried 4 GBU-12's and 4 AMRAAM's with the centerline fuel tank

Thanks Dennis, I appreciate the help.
I don't have any AMRAAM's though.

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by 72cuda Hey mike; if you want to model an OIF bird like the ones I've seen flying about Iraq they carried 4 GBU-12's and 4 AMRAAM's with the centerline fuel tank

Dennis,

That's kind of a light load isn't it?

Mike

QUOTE: Originally posted by 72cuda Hey mike; if you want to model an OIF bird like the ones I've seen flying about Iraq they carried 4 GBU-12's and 4 AMRAAM's with the centerline fuel tank

You need to look closer Dennis. The F-15 cannot fly with a centerline fuel tank according to a F-15E crewchief I talked to.

Mike

Mike you got a good point there, even though I'm not around any F-15E's but most of the pics of F-15E's that I have seen dont have the centerline fuel tank. This dont mean that they dont have them on there. But who knows.

Bryan,

Here is what he told me in regards to this:

"F-15Es do not use a centerline fuel tank -- first off, there is an interference drag issue created with the airflow around the pods, and second there is an aircraft stability issue such that the airplane flies more smooth without a centerline tank. In fact, I have never personally seen an F-15E flying with a centerline bag in my experience with the jet since '99. Given the distances required for all post-Desert Storm operations over Iraq, 90% of the time F-15Es are flying with two bags on the wing stations. That other 10% of the time, they're flying with AGM-130s under one wing and a single bag under the opposite wing."

Mike

Mike,
That jibes with everything I've seen...never have seen a dark gray with a centerline tank or anything else for that matter.

Kind of interesting though considering that your signature pic shows a mudhen WITH a centerline fuel tank. And whats up with the intakes? looks like they're configured for high AOA (full down deflection).

QUOTE: Originally posted by salbando Kind of interesting though considering that your signature pic shows a mudhen WITH a centerline fuel tank. And whats up with the intakes? looks like they're configured for high AOA (full down deflection).

I never noticed that until now. [:0]
Apparently the artist who drew that didn't do his homework.
I am going to get a different signature pic now as this is unacceptable.

Mike

Dang Mike,
Didn't mean to make ya change your signature pic. But I must say that the new signature pic is much better.

Salbando

QUOTE: Originally posted by salbando Dang Mike, Didn't mean to make ya change your signature pic. But I must say that the new signature pic is much better.

Thank You my friend. Any F-15E picture is a good picture to me.


I noticed that your screen name is the same as a former famous Oakland A's shortstop. Is that coincidental?

Mike

Don't mean to sound like a know-it-all, but when I was at Seymour Johnson (93-96), they flew with a bag on the centerline almost all the time. I can provide pictures to illustrate this if needed. Perhaps it's a recent change of policy to not carry a tank on that station? Maybe it interferes with the seperation of some of the newer ordnance?

That's interesting Doug. Thanks.
Let me ask the people that arm them over at the F-15E forum and see what I can find out.

Mike

Now you've really got my curiosity up , Mike. I just took a look at my portfolio and the C models I photographed over the Persian Gulf in '95 are carying 3 bags of gas, 4 Sparrows, 2 'winders and 2 AMRAAMs. If they're not carrying centerline tanks anymore, it must be a recent development. Let me know if you find out why.

Doug,

Those were F-15C's you saw at Seymour Johnson and not F-15E's correct?
One F-15E tech on the F-15 forum told me that the reason they don't use the centerline tank is because of the CFT's (conformal fuel tanks).
Here is what he said:

QUOTE: I'd say the main reason centerline tanks aren't used is the CFT's. C models generally use the centerline tank which in addition to the 13,500 pounds of fuel internal, gives around 1-1.5 hour training sortie. For an E-model, the CFT's add about ~9500 pounds of fuel to the 13.5K internal, giving about a 2 hour sortie. Another 3700 pounds from a centerline just gives more fuel/drag than required. When a longer sortie without refueling is needed, the wing tanks are usually put on, leaving the centerline free for a SUU rack if needed. Inert training bombs are almost always put on the CFT's since that's where they'd go in a real situation. The few times I've seen an F-15E with a centerline tank were all in Alaska. Aircraft sent to scheduled depot had CFT's removed (so depot wouldn't have to do it themselves and also store two CFT's for a few months). To get them down there with less (or maybe none?) tanker support, we put three bags on.

I hope this answers your question.

Mike

Mike,
Didn't realize the the Oakland A's had a guy using the same nickname. Salbando is just what everyone in the squadron calls me. It's a lot easier to pronounce than Salvatore. Actually, they call me quite a few things from time to time.
BTW...I did have an uncle that played for the California Angels, but I think his name was Joe Does that count.

QUOTE: Originally posted by salbando Mike, Didn't realize the the Oakland A's had a guy using the same nickname.

That wasn't a nickname, it was his real name.
He was the team captain for the famous '72 A's.

Mike

Doug,

Here is another post from the other forum that might better answer the centerline fuel tank question:

QUOTE: Again, my understanding is this, based on what fellow old-cranium pilots have told me: 1. The interference drag between the LANTIRN pods and the centerline fuel tank negates the benefit of the extra gas. One of the anecdotes I was told about a typical September when the squadron was trying to fly off their flying hour program and needed more ASD. So, they loaded centerline bags on some jets, and continued with normal config flying on others. On average, he said, he got .1 more with that extra 4100 pounds. Not exactly what you'd call an efficient use of extra gas. This was noticed by the leadership and they stopped doing it. 2. Another old-cranium, a patch-wearer in my ex-squadron at SJ said that under the two latest flight control software revisions (the ones that have the 30 AOA restrictuin deleted) there is instability introduced when the centerline bag is installed. This is also, apparently, airflow related but this pilot said this time that it was due to the fact that the new flight control software took advantage of the extra flat-plate area provided in the 15E by the CFTs, and that installing the centerline bag spoiled that. So, there you have it. Again, in my time at SJ between '99 and '03 I never saw a centerline tank installed, period. I suspect also that the centerline bag has gone out of fashion for tactical reasons, as well, because of the datalink pod's home there on station 5.

Mike

I'm thinking that loadout #3 would look cool with the 391st Bold Tigers decals:
http://www.f-15estrikeeagle.com/navigation/index_weapons.htm

Go to the 'Loadout Configurations/Operation Enduring Freedom' link and look at loadout #3.

Mike

Mike,

That explanation works for me. But to clarify, F-15E's at Seymour Johnson were carrying centerline tanks on a regular basis, in addition to their standard conformal tanks at least up through 1996. The F-15C's I mentioned were from Eglin. I photographed them over the Persian Gulf in 1995.

Doug,

That's interesting.
I guess the software for the flight controls that was mentioned in my other post must be the reason why they no longer do that.

Mike

the F-15E doesnt need centerline fueltanks because they have conformal fueltanks attatched which is what actually causes the stability problems when the centerline tank is attached. I should know my father was a NCOIC in charge of maintenance of the 71st Fighter Squadron at Langley AFB and he really hated the conformal fuel tanks

Scratchbuilt,

Some OIF loads of note...

Night One loads;

1. 4 x GBU-12s on the right, 1 x AGM-130 on the left wing and the data link pod on the centerline. Wing tank was on the right side. I think they hung 2 x AIM-120s on the left bottom CFT rows but I would have to look at the pictures. Typical 2 x AIM-120Cs and 2 x AIM-9Ms on the right shoulder of the wing pylons and 2 x AIM-9Ms on the left above the AGM-130. This load went downtown after one of the "leadership" targets. I think you know what I mean. By the way, this was an Operation Northern Watch load too with the exception of AMRAAM substitutes for the left side GBU-12s. The other jets in the ONW flight were 4 x GBU-12 on the right, 2 x AMRAAM on the left bottom rows, 1 x GBU-10 on the left wing and 1 x GBU-10 on the centerline with a wing tank on the right. Same air-to-air mix on the shoulders except 2 x AIM-9Ms above the AGM-130. Fin clearance is why. One of these F-15Es (from Seymour) came back empty after an ONW flight! All GBU-10s/12s gone. Triple A gunners never learned their lesson...don't shoot at the Beagles.
2. 9 x GBU-12s! Four on a side and one down the middle. Yes, wall-to-wall tank plinking kind of load. Right after the sandstorm left Iraq, the Seymour F-15Es flew 96 missions in a 24 hour period all carrying this load. ALL jets came back empty! There were that many targets. During the storm, they all had GBU-31 JDAMs (4 of them). A single group took out 70 tanks through the sandstorm from JSTARS vectors! Seems Iraqis forgot the JDAMs don't need a laser spot.
3. I've heard of one other, and that was 2 x GBU-24s on one side and 4 x GBU-12s on the other. Need to confirm this one though. Again, they went after strategic targets first followed by some CAS on the back half of the mission. Remember the wing tanks are sometimes light gray on a dark gray jet...a little authenticity to your model. Saw this all the time.

For the Light Grays (F-15Cs), all Light Grays were 4 x AIM-120 AMRAAMs, 2 x AIM-7M Sparrows and 2 x AIM-9M Sidewinders with 3 x external tanks. On the fuselage, the Sparrows are up front with the AMRAAMs in the back. Wings had AMRAAMs inside and Sidewinders outside on top of wing tanks.

hey MikeV:
well the Fleagles I've seen flying in OIF they carried 4 GBU-12's and 4 AIM-120's, as their standard load from 1 May 03 on to Novemebr 03, but it varied from March 03 to 1 May 03,

Thanks 72Cuda.

I have decided to build this model as a 391st Bold Tigers bird with loadout #3 from OEF which consisted of 5 GBU-12's, 6 Mk 82's, 2 AIM-9L's, and 2 AIM-120's, along with the two bags for fuel.

Mike

Hey MikeV;
sorry for the confusion I ment to say the wing tanks not Centerlines, I know they look like centerline tanks but are carried on the wing pylons, as for their loads they really didn't have a prime choice of targets after 1May 03 and they wanted to have more air time so they lightened the loads for long hour flights,

QUOTE: Originally posted by 72cuda Hey MikeV; sorry for the confusion I ment to say the wing tanks not Centerlines, I know they look like centerline tanks but are carried on the wing pylons, as for their loads they really didn't have a prime choice of targets after 1May 03 and they wanted to have more air time so they lightened the loads for long hour flights,

No problem Cuda.

Mike