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f-4 phantom

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  • Member since
    November 2005
f-4 phantom
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:38 AM
One of the enigmas of the Israeli airforce is F4-E #187, painted with, arguably the largest sharkmouth on any Phantom ever. Much conflicting information has been written, but to this day remains somewhat of a mystery. What is known, is that this particular early model F4-E was sold to the IAF in the late 1960's, arriving with the first or second batch received. F4-Es, at that time were not equipped with the forward maneuvering slats as standard equipment. The late Tim McGovern, wrote in his book on the F4E, that McDonnell Douglas engineers refitted an Israeli F4 (#68-544) with fixed slats in October 1970. After extensive flight testing, the data was collected from the Israelis and would be used by McDonnell engineers to incorporate the actuating leading edge maneuvering slats in later models of the "E".

An official Israeli military photographer, Mr. Moshe Milner, took a series of in-flight pictures at various airshows in the early 1970's that show an early "E", with fixed leading edge slats, an extremely garish sharkmouth on the sides of the nose, and camera register markings forward of, and on the sides of the intakes. Further photos appeared, that show the same camera register markings on the inboard pylons and on the aft fuselage. This photographic evidence might confirm the identity of the plane as #68-544. To my knowledge, no other IAF Phantoms from that era have these markings.

Now the rumors..... the story has been told that the plane was the 69 squadron ("Ha Patishim"/ "Hammers") commanders personal aircraft, and he had the sharkmouth painted on during the flight test program. The mouth markings were not "blessed" by the IAF high command and later painted over. Some observers contend that the markings were similar to the French Ouragon, in IAF service in the 1950s-60s, of #113 squadron, and that in abit of official disinformation, attempted to show that an additional Phantom squadron was in service.

The Yom Kippur war of October 1973, saw the Phantom and Skyhawk squadrons take heavy losses in the early days of the conflict, with #187 purportedly flying a single combat mission against the Syrians. Apparently the damage inflicted on the plane during that sortie was severe enough to sideline it for the remainder of the war. A photo published in Israel after the war, showed the aircraft at the Israel Aircraft Industries facility at Lod airport during repairs. The white teeth had already been painted out, but the outline of the mouth was still evident.

A single photograph taken by the author in the mid 1970s, while serving with the military in Israel, revealed a new incarnation for #187. Now appearing in the markings of 119 squadron, with red chevron on the tail and "Bat" squadron markings. The aircraft tail number and a unique patch of brown camouflage on the LHS tail confirmed its identity. The nose markings had been oversprayed, and curiously a patch of green which normally would appear on the nose camo scheme was absent, further confirming the indentity of the A/C. Clown [:o)]
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: plopped down in front of this computer.
Posted by eagle334 on Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:15 AM
Are you asking any specific questions with your posts that we can help you with or are you just supplying us with some info? Just curious.
Wayners Go Eagles! 334th Fighter Squadron Me and my F-4E <script language="javascript" src="http://www.airfighters.com/phgid_183.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Winsted CT
Posted by jimz66 on Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:21 AM
I agree. and can you provide photos? I am a huge F-4 Fan and would like to see some images of what you are referring to. Thanks.
Phantoms rule the skies!!!
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:56 AM
Are you sure that SN 68-544 is correct? In my reference books, I don't see that SN listed. The last 68 model built was a block 41, SN 68-538. From there they went to block 42, SN 69-236. The first F-4E's delivered to the Israeli Air Force was block no. 51, SN 71-1094 through 71-1109, 71-1779 through 71-1784, blocks no 52, SN 71-1785 through 71-1790. Their next shipment was block no 53, SN 71-1791 through 71-1796.

After the '73 war a number of USAF F-4E's were sold to Israel to make up for loses. Their next purchases were block 60, SN 74-1014 & 74-1015, block 61, SN 74-1016 through 74-1021, and block 62, SN 74-1022 through 74-1037.

The only 544 I can find is a block 58, SN 73-1544 which was sold to Iran.

I have heard that Israel did the original test with the leading edge slats on the F-4E. They also did the test with the ALE-40/41 chaff/flare dispensers. They passed this information on to MDD and the USAF resulting in the ALE-40/41 being added to the F-4 fleet.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:28 AM
need help with the camo pattern of the f 4 any body got a sugestion.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Winsted CT
Posted by jimz66 on Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:19 AM
juan it depends on what you are building. If you are building a US Navy or USMC F-4 it is usually white underneath and gloss gull gray i think on top. If you are doing an Air Force F-4 it depends on the era and location of the bird. And that's not the end of the list. Post your email if you have one so I or someone else can send you images now and in the future. It can be very helpful.
Phantoms rule the skies!!!
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Winsted CT
Posted by jimz66 on Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:21 AM
Berny Can you or someone else explain production blocks to me? Thanks.
Phantoms rule the skies!!!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, February 19, 2004 12:05 PM
WOW Berny! You are the Phantom Guru of knowledge.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Thursday, February 19, 2004 2:26 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jimz66

Berny Can you or someone else explain production blocks to me? Thanks.


Block numbers are used by the manufacturer to show some change, modification, or addition made to the aircraft. It could be a minor, major change or even an upgrade to the aircraft.

Example. The Ajax company makes aileron actuators for the aircraft. The company has up graded the actuator to make it stronger. The new actuator is larger and needs a beefed up support bracket. The aircraft manufacturer re-designes the mounting bracket so the new actuator can be used. Once they start using that item, they assign a new block number. For each change or modification made on the assembly line a new block number has to be assigned.

When maintenance needs a part for the aircraft, they have to check the "Useable On Code", (UOC) to see what part can be used on their aircraft. In front of the Illustrated Parts Breakdown (IPB) book, is a break down of aircraft by block and SN. A code is assigned to that block and SN. When looking for a part there may be several part numbers listed for that item. The UOC code will tell the person what part number to use when ordering that part.

Just like when you go to a parts store to get something for your car, they sometimes need your vehicle identification number (VIN) to make sure you are getting the correct part that will fit your car.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Winsted CT
Posted by jimz66 on Thursday, February 19, 2004 5:30 PM
Thanks Berny, I never looked at it that way.
Phantoms rule the skies!!!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:01 PM
i'm just giving some info
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Friday, February 20, 2004 8:56 AM
If you are going to give out information, make sure you do your research. Also you need to get rid of the animation. This is not the place for it.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 21, 2004 3:07 PM
I found a clip of F-4C's taking off and firing 3 GUN PODS AT ONCE on ...www.dansaviationhistiory.com (I think).
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, February 21, 2004 3:23 PM
Link's not working b6dan!!! I wanna see!!!!!
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