B 17 Serial Numbers

It should've been painted in yellow on the tail. You can find pictures that'll detail the placement. It might be easier to convert an "F" to the "E". You would need a new nose transparency, and the propellers are slimmer than the "F" and "G" models (someone, I think it was Bigfoot1, used C-47 props for that). If you're building in 1/48, some folks pick up Revell's "F" model and swap noses with the Monogram "G". Seems easier than having to scratch the nose piece.

Squadron sells aftermarket canopies for B-17g models.  Though as inexpensive as the Revell G is, it might be cheaper just to buy the G vice the squadron canopies.

Groot

Mississipivol: If I swap noses, where would I make the cut?

I'm kind of familiar with this. I took the 1968 El Camino, cut the front clip off it and replaced that with the front clip from a 1972 Chevelle. i had a 1972 GMC Sprint (it was an El Camino with GMC markings)

is the B 17 switch kind of the same thing?

Thanks

Bill Koster sells a kit to convert a 1/48 F or G to a C/D/E model.  Information can be found at Swanny's Models.  Look at Bigfoot's build for information.  If I remember right, he used an F top turret to make the remote control belly turret.  With the Koster kit, it will provide you with the correct longer engine cowlings whereas the F and G 's had shorter cowlings to enable the paddleblade props to be feathered.  The serial number on the tail would be in yellow as 12435 denoting the fiscal year of 1941, serial 2435.  

Bearcat57

greentracker
you wouldn't have to cut the nose anywhere. The nose that was mentioned is the bombardier's perspex. You would simply substitute the 'G' model's for the 'F's.

The F and mid G glass is in no way useable for an E model as it does not have the interior framing and it is too pointed.  Koster's is the only game in town for availability of a B/C/D/E glass nose.

Yeah, the "E" had more framing, and a different shape. I didn't realize about the longer cowlings, though.

Just a side note, but when the B-17Es were being built, the AAF had just switched to "low vis" type markings, and any identifying marks on the OD would be in black. Serial numbers were not usually carried at that time. That would not come about at factories until 1942 with the B-17F. Usually the numbers carried would be a unit identifier and a "plane in group" number. As an example plane 12 of 15th bomb group would have something along the lines of 15BG 12 in some form on the vertical stabilizer. Plane in group numbed were assigned by the unit and did not correspond to the aircraft's serial number.

The AFF required radio call numbers, usually refered to as 'serial numbers', from August 22, 1941. These were applied at the factory beginning in November 1941. Painted in yellow on a dark backgrounds and in black on light backgrounds and to be large enough to be read at approximately 150 yards.

Most of the B-17E's production would have fallen in this time frame as the desired production rates didn't meet the contract schedule until April 16, 1942 with the 353rd airplane, with the last B-17E being  delivered May 28, 1942 ... 49 days ahead of schedule.

HTH

Tony H.

But you would need to know when the specific aircraft was built, before or after the date that serials were applied at the factory. And if that was beforehand, were they ever applied in the field in yellow or not? What regs say are one thing, applying the regs at the factory another, and wether or not they were ever applied to the aircraft in question still another.

They were applied in the field in yellow as witnessed in AF Colors, v.1.  Pg 85 shows B-17E's and a D obviously in yellow  Pg 89 is a 22nd BG B-26 before they shipped out from CA to Hawaii 6 Feb 42.  And the B-17E destroyed on the ground 20 Feb 42 on pg 91.  Also the three B-26's of the 77th BS of "Million Dollar Valley" fame had their serials applied by the squadron before they crashed in British Columbia on Jan 16 42 on their way to Alaska. Kermit Weeks' B-26, and the MAPS B-26 are part of this group.  But in the case of this particular B-17E, it does have yellow serials as shown by the photo from Pacific Wrecks with the date marked as Feb 23 42.

Yes, you're right.

In this case the information that I have shows the the B-17E being discussed (41-2435) being delivered to Salt Lake City November 30, 1941. Which puts it in the time frame of of the order to the contractors for the radio call numbers to be painted on at the factory. Whether it left the factory painted this way I couldn't be sure. My suspicion is that if it did leave the factory without the call numbers, they were added at the depot in Salt Lake City before being issued to a operational unit.

But I can see your point, there are plenty of pictures of early models of P-38's, P-39's, P-40's, A-20's, B-25's with either no call numbers or just the unit designator with the plane in group number.

HTH

Tony H.

Thanks for looking it up in Air Force Colors v.1. I was gonna check that when I got home from work here tonite ;-) I know examples of the black on OD markings were pretty common in Hawaii (and probably the Phillipines as well) at the outbreak of war. I am curious how quickly surviving aircraft were repainted to comply with the regs. I seriously doubt that was done in the PI, as the FEAF was pretty much annihilated within a few weeks. But Hawaii is a different matter altogether.

Some probably were repainted after May 42 with the removal of the red circle and the red and white tail bars, but some were probably never changed as in the case of of the Aleutian Tiger P-40E color photo from LIFE magazine that was in the red surround  markings in1943.

Indeed... The further forward and away from major HQs aircraft were based, the more likely they were not to be in compliance with AAF regs. SWP and CBI aircraft are prime examples of this.

Thanks everyone for the info I did some research a while back. I'll have to go back and find it again.