Bare Metal Navy Jets?

That's a real nice picture Stik. Those Panthers look great in BMF

VF-111 in 1953 in the "mixed" color schemes. USS Lake Champlain CV-39.

I am doing an FJ-2 conversion. I chose it because it is in bare metal, it is Marines, and it went to see even though most people say the -2s didn't do so. (two other Marine/FJ-2/Natural Metal units helped eval the steam cats on the Hancock, before she got the angled deck)

We have a photo of VMF-122 Candy Stripers on the deck of the Coral Sea for her Med cruise in 1955, LC-307, with Red and Yellow stripes. The scheme has been in the "easy to find" batch of photos since 1981, in Fighting Colors by Squadron.

I also like that photo that Paul mentioned, but, my VF-11 before it was disestablished will be the ATG AP-1xx code on the Essex, because no one ever builds those markings.

TarnShip

Dave, I can compile a list of Aircraft and deployment dates if you want to use it to search online for pics. It would only take 10 or 15 minutes, I would just go through each aircraft type's books and list the dates of the photos for you.

Then you could just search for  " Banshee VF-31 " for example  www.google.com/search

let me know

Rex

Thanks for the kind offer Rex, but I don't want to waste your time with it.

The only kit I have from the list is the F7U and I have a few good reference pictures for the aircraft I'm planning to build.  I'm leaning towards CV-3 which had bare metal aircraft with some attractive blue fin flashes.

 Those links were quite helpful too!  Thanks for those.

Argentina operated the F9F in the silver lacquer, over white.

Hmmmmm... A NMF F9F-5P... That sounds quite unique...

Light gull gray over white.

Best camo scheme ever!

from TT's Blog

"Beginning in April 1952, the experiment was to involve approximately 100 F9F-5s (including F9F-5Ps and at least one F9F-2), all F7U-3s, 100 F2H-3s (and apparently some F2H-4s) and all FJ-2s. In cases where the external skins were not Alclad, they were painted with an aluminized lacquer that closely resembled the natural metal.

The natural metal F9F-5s and F2Hs were scattered among squadrons that also operated over-all blue airplanes."

It seems that I accidentally added in the Cougars and Demons,,,,,,Paul makes more sense, since those two types came into service late in the Blue days, and early in the Gray days. (I apologize for adding those in)

I did forget to include some true Natural Metal FJ-3/3M Furys, but those weren't part of the experiment, some were operated from land by the Marines, and when VF-33 had Bare Metal aircraft they were between deployments.

Rex

I didn't look through the links to Tommy's pages, but I don't recall seeing any Demons (F3H) or Cougars (F9F-6/7/8) in bare metal. Cutlasses, Banshees (F2H) and a few Panthers (F9F-4/5) were in the experiments, as were Marines F2J Fury. We're not counting ground-based types of course (R4D, SNB, SNJ, etc.). There's a particularly interesting photo of three VF-11 F2H-3 Banshees lined up, one in sea blue, one bare metal, and one in gray/white. Thought that would make a terrific diorama to illustrate the changing colors of the 1950s.

Tommy has a blog about that stuff also. Including the copyrighted name's usage in Navair history.

haha, my Uncle came to visit me at one of my "Scooter stops" while he was with one of the Phantom squadrons.

He looked at our parking area and said something like "I am so jealous of you Scooter Pukes, you get to paint your intakes with Red paint,,,,,,,and the Mucky-Mucks were still trying to get us to replenish Corrogard after each repair,,,,even in the war zone"  (not an exact quote, but his talking style,,,,,,,,just like him to forget that he spent time as a "Scooter Puke" himself at one point)

historical disclaimer, while I know he was at Glenview when they had A-4Ls, I think, but am not positive that he was there when they still had the TA-4Bs also, in between two Phantom deployments 

Coroguard... That's the name of the stuff that I came across when I was researching my F9F color scheme a few years ago...

Yeah, the decals on an M1 that I built in the late 80s, long before I did clear gloss and flat coats with decals, have all dried and shriveled up in the sunlight over the years. It's too bad because it was one with "artwork". Anybody have the Garfield "Laze and Blaze" markings in their spares bin that they are willing to part with? Yeah I know, it's a tank, but you never know who will read this..,

of course, for models, the actual scientific facts are moot.

For any modeler that expects his decals to stay on his model for 20 years (like mine will have to), the plastic is going to be painted in the best aluminum I can find, with the other metal areas painted in the best Magnesium and steel colors I can find, and fibreglass painted in some silver paint.

Then the whole thing is going to get a clear coat,,,,,,,,,a ton of decals,,,,,,and another clear coat.

that way, 20 years from now, if I have my Naval collection done, I will be able to move them without the decals flying away in the current from the ceiling fan. That really happened to one of my Sabre models from the early seventies, the decals were just put on the silver paint, and dried up and blew away in a breeze.

Rex

The test started in April 1952 and corrosion was evident "by the middle of 1953", and then the aircraft were refurbished and painted in the new scheme in 1955. At that rate, it seems that it took 3 years for anything other than the special wax to be used on the actual Alclad,,,,,,the "clear coats" were already being used on all of the non aluminum metal surfaces, and metal paints were already in use on non-metalic surfaces.

I had "been told" quite often that the clear coats were used on the Alclad right at the start of the testing, also,,,,,,,,but, that negates the whole point of a corrosion test.

I am going to go with the Vought engineer's findings on this one. (I have believed him ever since he corrected me concerning the clear coats before he posted that Blog)

Rex

There is a considerable amount of salt in water vapor above the ocean. Aluminum is very susceptible to rust in these conditions. The alloys of aluminum used in aerospace in the 1950s (with copper and magnesium) even more so. I've been told that planes with bare metal ended up having to be sent to shore facilities to have a considerable amount of the aircraft's skin replaced after deployments.

I can get pictures of corrosion if you want to use them for detailing. The clear coats came quickly and the program ended afterward.

oh, and after quite a bit of back and forth, Tommy found the info that most of the aircraft in the test were actually bare metal. The whole point of the test was to see how rapid the corrosion would be compared to the painted aircraft, and how beneficial the weight savings would be to performance. He mentions in this article what uses the clear paint was put to on the exceptions to leaving them bare Alclad.

thanlont.blogspot.com/.../it-seemed-like-good-idea-at-time-vii.html

and this article gives the transition from Blue to Metal to Light Gull Gray over White (I didn't re-read it today to see if he covers why the rudders were changed from Gray to White, though)

tailspintopics.blogspot.com/.../changing-from-blue-to-graywhite.html

Dave, I can compile a list of Aircraft and deployment dates if you want to use it to search online for pics. It would only take 10 or 15 minutes, I would just go through each aircraft type's books and list the dates of the photos for you.

Then you could just search for  " Banshee VF-31 " for example  www.google.com/search

let me know

Rex

Thanks for the info guys!

Come to think of it, I think I may have seen a Cougar in NMF, but never any of the other birds. I bet an NMF Savage looks pretty snazzy.

I need to do some searching to dig up some refs...

yup, entire operational squadrons of Banshees, Cougars, Panthers, Cutlasses, Demons, Furys, and Savages deployed with the NMF-appearing schemes.

some squadrons had a mix of the Metal and Blue schemes on the same deployment, that is how VA-153 became the Blue Tail Flies, they repaired a Metal finished Panther with a Blue finished rear end (from the engine changing line on back)

Rex

It was not true bare metal,  but actually a clear lacquer or aluminum lacquer IIRC. It was done in the mid -1950s on a few types:F9F, F7U, F3H, and perhaps some others I have not come across photos of. The Navy was looking for a replacement for the overall Gloss Sea Blue scheme, and eventually settles on teh Gull Gray over White. I found the info on Tailhook topics several years back when researching my F9F build.

Fly-n-hi

If there are any there won't be very many.  Bare metal and salt water don't play well together.

If there are any there won't be very many.  Bare metal and salt water don't play well together.