comanche cancelled? read this.

Well, I don't think everything is lost. I am pretty sure the technology developed during the Comanche development could be used in other higher priority applications, maybe not now, but later on. Who knows if they revive this and improve it than it could have been (like the YF-17 - F/A-18 issue)?

200 hundred jobs is not that many I am sorry to say. Throwing good money after bad is not a good idea. Just because the Comanche looks "cool" is not a valid reason to build it. And what are you talking about the sub base? New London? Groton? Most of the guys who work ther live in Rhode Island or Massachusetts because they can't afford to live in Connecticut.
If there was a valid reason to save the Comanche then it would have probably survived. That angular stealth design is old and newer designs have proven more effective. Look at the B-2, its skin is smooth and rounded. Who knows, maybe there is a more advanced design in the works somewhere that blows the Comanche away. And maybe they'll build it in Connecticut, OK? Remember when the F 117 was the F19 in everybody's mind? Who knew?

hey read this harold

The long term plans for the Army are based on rapid response. We're looking at C-130 type mobility (including our Main Battle Tanks). In the next ten years, the Army intends to replace most of its combat equipment to make the Army more mobile, more lethal, and smaller than any other fighting force in the world. This can be seen in the formation of the Stryker Bridgade now in Iraq. The emphasis is on high technology for greater situational awareness. The Commanche program could have been a great help with the new doctrine of Mobility Warfare, but it wasn't essential. With the unit cost of $58.9 million, the Army couldn't afford to fund all the other costly programs that are essential. Plain and simple, the Commanche outgrew its budget.

Maybe all is not lost. Various programs have been cancelled in the past and have lead to better, cheaper and more austere vehicles that have left their mark in military history: the YAH-56, the MBT-70, the B-1A and B-70, and the project that lead to the F-111.

Yup !! Too much money, too little oposition !

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimz66 We need the manufacturing jobs and the Apaches need to be replaced. They are tired and there is no resaon in the world to cancel this program. It is just that simple. I am born and rasied in CT and this state cannot afford to loose these jobs. Now theres talk again of us loosing the sub base this state cannot afford these losses.

Also born and raised in CT. I've got many childhood memories of my Dad and I at the New England Air Museum (next to Bradley).

It’s a shame…what's happening.

i think its a crying shame now is the time that we need to up grade to keep ahead of the curve and on top of the world as a dominant force and we can't do that if we keep sinking
all that time and money these projucts just to throw them out the window all the time i dont
think that 's very smart as the apache wont last forever i just hope we dont get caught with our pounts down what a stupid move
but thats just how i feel a'bout that

While I offer my appologies for getting so hot over this issue, I feel I have good reason. In the last week the State of Connecticut has been hit hard not once, not twice not three times by the military.

First was the devestating and heartbreaking news of the ceasation of the Commanche project which I maintain is very essential to the future of our nation and our troops protection while on the battlefield in future conflcts.

Second there is now talk of the Sub base at Groton as well as Electric Boat closing in the next round of base closures. Which would also seriously affect the economy of the whole region.

Thirdly their is apparantly some kind of criminal investigation into the Blackhawks something to do with parts or something like that.

Now a week later they want to move our only Air National Guard base at Bradley sending our A-10's north to Massachuesets.

So you can see why I can get so upset over not a "few" manufacturing jobs but MANY as well as affecting the entire State.

I said my piece.

After making the above post, the news came on to say that if the A-10's of the 103 Fighter Wing employes 300 people and pumps 60 million dollars per year into the local economy.

stealth aircraft less casualties in the battlefield. that's i can say. sad to say that comanche's gone.

I hate for those who loses a job that is pending on the petigon for funding but that is what happens.I lived in a area where we denped on Red River Army depot and Lone Star Ammunations to proved jobs.They cut back on R.R.A.D and close L.S.A.but people there started there own busnesses and are do fine.I have to agree with Rummfild that these programs are to costly.Look at missle and computer technolgys that have came out in the last 10years.It is cheaper to send a robot aircraft up and use map of the earth tech to destory a target, then have a solider come in and mop up.They are coming out with tech that allows a target to be called in then lunch a missle and bam instant b.b.q.
Patton saw this is what was going to happen back in WWII when he saw all the weapons that the Germans were devolping.
It won't be long before you will have a Sky-Net running things.You can look 30 years back and see it.Progresition 8track-cassette-c.d's-to mp3's.Soon the main battle tank will be gone.Why the Britts are working on electro-magnetic fields to use as protection.If this works,then a Hummer will be able to take the place of a M.B.T.It will happen,also robotics is just right around the corner.For all those who doudt this here is a true story.In 1890 the Methidist church had a convention in which a young peacher was called to keep quit about his thoughts of the future.This young peacher was talking about man flying,the elder peacher called him to be quit.The elder went home that evening talking to his two sons Orville and Wilbur Wright.
The day of massive weapons programs are like the dodo,GONE.Digger

War via Playstation, anyone? Besides, the Comanche seemed to be the Apache's successor! Whoever we may support, the budget-cut or the pro-RAH-66'ers, there are still going to be models of it! I don't mean resin, either!

QUOTE: Originally posted by b6dan CF-105 Arrow

I seriously wonder what really made them cancel that project. I think it was international politics. who knows....... *shrug*

I do hate to see the comanche go. personally I think your going to see a trend toward unmanned planes and all sorts of "high-tech" warfare. won't that be the day when 2 unmanned vehicles go out to fight each other, it would really accomplish lots.

There is absolutley no reason NOT TO BUILD IT!

AND BLUE THUNDER GETS HIT BY THE TRAIN! Let's see where this has happened before... ummm... CF-105 Arrow, TSR.2, XF-103, YF-12and B-58B!!! I'm tired of the officials blowing money out their on campaign ads and GOLDEN TOILET SEATS!!!

sorry to say, but a few manufacturing jobs is not justification to continue an unnecessarily expensive project that the military DOES NOT need.

There's no reason to continue it. The necessity of a stealthly scout chopper was made obsolete by the fall of the soviet union (for the most part). Future wars are likely to be of the "3 block" variety (look it up), which don't often involve countries with extensive radar networks or AA capabilities beyond SA-7s and RPGs. As for replacing the apache, the 66 was never designed to do that - it was designed to replace the kiowa. The Army is currently facing the fact that they are not organized to fight post cold-war battles as efficiently as they should, and cancelling relics of it are a step in the right direction.

big picture.

Look it is this simple were not in a position that it is a good thing to cancell any programs. This state alone stands to loose TWO HUNDRED THATS RIGHT TWO HUNDRED MANUFACTURING JOBS!!! THIS STATE CANNOT AFFORD THAT. PERIOD!

Reading the AIR FORCE TIMES, they stated that new A/C type projects the military are under consideration for either cancelation or delays for this budget year of 2005, the Times said the F/A-22, F-35, RAH-66, KB-767,V-22, are all conceidered but the good news is that the AF got the OKay to unretire 23 B-1B's and upgrade the A-10's, F-15's, F-16's, B-52's, B-2's, C-5's, C-141's, C-130's,but the F-15's & 16's might see another manufacturing run too, so the AF might get the newer Block 60 F-16's

Read post from delta dagger:
"At a Pentagon news conference, senior Army leaders said they would propose to Congress that $14.6 billion earmarked to develop and build 121 Comanches between now and 2011 be used instead to buy 796 additional Black Hawk and other helicopters and to upgrade and modernize 1,400 helicopters already in the fleet."
Read the whole post as there's more detail regarding this, but one would assume that the current fleet would include the AH-64s :)

Are there any plans to overhaul AH-64's or build new (maybe upgraded) ones to compensate for the cancellation of the Comanche? Just wondering what the Pentagon's long-term ideas are here.

the cancellation of the commanche is a shame...i always liked the sleek airframe when i first saw it in '96 and now...*sniff* its gone.

what a waste. both in money and in jobs that are now lost.

joe

I wonder if the horrible pounding the AH-64s took in the Iraq war had anything to do with the cancellation of the Comache project.

Regards,

Hi all. Just wanted to share my opinions. I think it's sad that the commanche won't be built, but stricly from a helicopter enthusiast point of view.
However, financially, I see it as a sound option. I'm sure that the community that was to build the aircraft will be greatly affected, but as in all things in life, not everyone can win.
The only point I strongly disagree with is that made by jimz66 : "Matt your dead wrong it is extremly neccesary to the future for the future safety or our nation and our troups"
Safety from whom? No amount of military WARFARE technology is going to stop things like 9/11 from happening. Monitoring and passive hardware is what's needed. The United States effectively invaded Afghanistan, and stopped any attacks from stemming over there. However, the Iraq invasion was based on a NBC threat, a threat that was supported by 'evidence' that amounted to little more than a few hundred gas masks the US troops found. The US is allready in an overwhelmingly more powerful situation. It wasa matter of weeks/months to invade the previously two noted locales, and that is a remarkably short period of time. So obviously more advanced technology on the fronts is not that neccessary.
So, it leads to one conclusion, which is why I don't understand your point jimz66. Protect you from what? THere is no viable front where the machine like the Comanche is needed. Allready the Blackhawks and AH-64s are FAR superior to anything the US has/will face now.
Just my opinions anyways

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimz66 Guys I live here in CT and that is going to hurt us in a very big big way. That is all I can say. Now there talking about criminal problems within the Blackhawk community.

*waves to fellow CT person*

And as to the subject, it blows that it got canceled.... I think it's a pretty neat looking helicopter and whatnot

How many were made anyway?

Matt your dead wrong it is extremly neccesary to the future for the future safety or our nation and our troups. We need the manufacturing jobs and the Apaches need to be replaced. They are tired and there is no resaon in the world to cancel this program. It is just that simple. I am born and rasied in CT and this state cannot afford to loose these jobs. It is just that simple. With all the cutbacks at Pratt and Whitney this state simpley cannot afford to loose those jobs. Now theres talk again of us loosing the sub base this state cannot afford these losses. IT IS JUST THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's an unnecessary relic of a cold-war development program. Sure, it's cool and high-speed, and all that, but in today's battlefield, it's unnecessary. No way around that.

Guys I live here in CT and that is going to hurt us in a very big big way. That is all I can say. Now there talking about criminal problems within the Blackhawk community.

As an airplane (and to a lesser extent helicopter) enthousiast, I am sad that the Comanche won't be built. On the other hand: how much use is a high-tech stealth bird designed to pentrate enemy lines and go looking for armour, when you're fighting guys with ak's? More AH-64's can do that job better, and I think the Army is realising this now.