The Underside Color of RAF P-40 Tomahawks - Black Port Wing?

I have two books on the P-40, one walk around and another one on the history with several dozen illustrations of a various paint schemes, many RAF. It includes dates as well. They were all Sky underneath and from what I've found the RAF quit using them in Mid-late 1941 and replaced them all with Spitfires. Here is a link to a Google book with lots of operational information on those Hawks. Hope this helps.

https://books.google.com/books?id=PLqfAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=RAF+403+squadron+1941+tomahawk&source=bl&ots=gd7dQTUFuK&sig=KlmPnHB5hqOiquaMGa2HJRqZNNA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjUxKzgidTJAhUS22MKHae4D0MQ6AEIOTAH#v=onepage&q=RAF%20403%20squadron%201941%20tomahawk&f=false

BK

Brandon,

Thanks for the links!  I must admit, the time period I am speaking of is only a month, and the P-40s were used mostly for training in that period, but if you take a look at this profile for the 403 squadron P-40, you can see it has a black port wing.

http://ww2artgallery.e-monsite.com/pages/srecko-bradic.html

This profile actually shows the included Revell-Monogram kit decal aircraft (although the ID code on the Revell-Monogram kit is wrong).

There is another photo of a Tomahawk sitting on an airfield, probably of 403 squadron (although there are no squadron markings on it) that may show a black port wing (scroll down).

https://rcaf403squadron.wordpress.com/tag/tomahawk-mk-1/

If you look closely, you can just make out what appears to be a demarcation line on the belly (just past the landing gear).  Maybe this is a black underside, maybe not.  Note the P-40 Tomahawk in the background with the cowling open seems to have all one color underside.

Anyway, thanks again for trying to help!

Gary

PS> I've updated the topic title to better reflect what I'm searching for.  To wit:

Did the early P-40 Tomahawks first sent to England have a black port wing as per standard RAF camo scheme at that time?

Chris over on Britmodeller came through with some information.  Apparently the P-40 Tomahawks arriving in early 41 did come with black port wings.  I can add this interesting scheme to my build now.

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/12-Tomahawk-Airacobra/Tomahawk-Airacobra-and-Mohawk-12-07-960

I'm pretty sure Tomahawks were painted in Curtis equivalents of RAF colours; and the "sky" was actually light grey.  Spinners and fuselage bands were painted after delivery and were true sky.  When used as army cooperation aircraft they had the underside of the port wing painted black.

GAF

There is another photo of a Tomahawk sitting on an airfield, probably of 403 squadron (although there are no squadron markings on it) that may show a black port wing (scroll down). https://rcaf403squadron.wordpress.com/tag/tomahawk-mk-1/ If you look closely, you can just make out what appears to be a demarcation line on the belly (just past the landing gear). Maybe this is a black underside, maybe not. Note the P-40 Tomahawk in the background with the cowling open seems to have all one color underside.

Note also the black wheel hub on this aircraft. Remember that the wheels were still exposed when retracted. The one in the background has a light coloured hub.

If you're planning to use the Monogram decals, reconsider.  The roundels are the wrong type, KH-R is in too fat a font, and the actual serial # is AH882, not AH881.  Iliad design and Ministry of Small Aircraft Production both make a sheet with better markings.

Cdn Colin

If you're planning to use the Monogram decals, reconsider.  The roundels are the wrong type, KH-R is in too fat a font, and the actual serial # is AH882, not AH881.  Iliad design and Ministry of Small Aircraft Production both make a sheet with better markings.

Yes, I'm making a list!  Though I'm not sure I want to spend money on AM stuff for this kit, it will give me a chance to try out painting my own.  As a person versed in CAD , if I can't make masks for circles, then I might as well give up.

And on the subject of squadron code letters, what color were they?  The Monogram/Revell letters are "white", but if you look at the image of KH-R in the above links, you will notice that the letters are a bit darker than the tailband (even in a black and white photo you can tell).  British "Sky" or medium sea grey?

Gary

PS> Interesting link:

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/foliagegreenrefgb_1.htm

They would probably use paint available at hand to paint squadron codes, so I would go with Dark Sea Gray.

I'm glad you brought this up. I learned something pretty cool about those black wings.

BK

Brandon,

Thanks!  I learned some things too I didn't know about the early Tomahawks (including that there is a lively debate about the color of the undersides)!

Concerning the font for the P-40 squadron codes:  after perusing the existing photos of KH-R I have to conclude that the font used is FATTER than the other squadron code letters on the other aircraft.  This page:

http://www.boxartden.com/gallery/index.php/Profiles/Camoflage-Markings/12-Tomahawk-Airacobra/Tomahawk-Airacobra-and-Mohawk-12-09-960

shows the aircraft both sides and underwing.  Note that KH-R's markings do seem to be a different size than the normal British squadron codes on the other aircraft.  This could be the squadron leader's aircraft so may have been specially marked.  Apparently they could get away with such things early on.

So, Monogram may have gotten the font correct, even though they're the wrong color! 

Gary

I see what you mean about the font size. I agree that is most likely something to do with sqaudron leader, or he was just "special".

I see the center plane in the one shot has what appears to be a black wing, any way to know if that was him? Or are we assuming since he's in front that he is the leader? Not trying to be smart here, just curious actually.

I have "the Last" Spit in my stash. I wonder if any of the those late birds had the black wing? 

BK

BrandonK

I see what you mean about the font size. I agree that is most likely something to do with sqaudron leader, or he was just "special".

I see the center plane in the one shot has what appears to be a black wing, any way to know if that was him? Or are we assuming since he's in front that he is the leader? Not trying to be smart here, just curious actually.

I have "the Last" Spit in my stash. I wonder if any of the those late birds had the black wing? 

BK

Thought I'd pop in here and say hello...

Not my expertise to call out colours from b/w photos, but there were standards set by the British Air Ministry.  From this we do know the squadron code letters were suppose to be medium sea grey, from 1939 until the introduction of the day fighter scheme.  This same gray then became the underside colour, so no reason to think there was a shortage of this paint.

As for the different style of code lettering in the photo with the three Tomahawks, I notice that too.  Note too, the furthermost aircraft has the 'K' in an entirely different style.  All this could mean is more than one person was painting the codes, which was done at squadron level.  There was no set height standard for code letters on the fuselage of fighters, but it was generaly stipulated they should be composed of 6 inch wide strokes.

regards,

Jack