Wild Weasel...

And does anyone make a model of it...???

I like the 105 for the role.

The F-4 is cool as all get out, in just about every role....the 105 aint any kind of pretty, so I gotta give it something!

I've actually got a pair from Trumpeter that are clawing their way to the top of the stash!

Actually, not as many F-4s as I'd like.  I would like to build an F-4B in 1:72 and can't find one anymore :-(

The Accurate Miniatures re-pop of the 1/72 Monogram kit came with an added resin QRC-160 ECM pod.  I'm not sure if that was the pod that turned the F4 into a wild weasel - but if it was - then there's your kit.  

I built this kit 10+ years ago or so.  As I remember, it's a very nicely detailed kit that needed just a bit of filler around the intakes.

Here's a review from the IPMS website:

http://www.ipmsusa.org/reviews2/aircraft/kits/accmin_72_f4/accmin_72_f4.htm

Chris

Having watched these guys for a year over there I have no doubt that this would be the one to pick:

Don Stauffer

Actually, not as many F-4s as I'd like.  I would like to build an F-4B in 1:72 and can't find one anymore :-(

 

In the Air Force, there were three aircraft types that specificly were modified to fly the SEAD or Wild Weasel mission: the F-100F twin seater which is how they first went to war, the follow on EF-105F & F-105G, that developed the doctrine, and finally the EF-4C and later F-4G. The F-4G was probably the most successful of the type, but if anything that had as much to do with operating under better Rules of Engagement, as well as having the latest and greatest in weaponry & electronics for the Weasel mission. Personally I prefer the F-105, if nothing else than for the level of success they achieved operating under less than optimal ROEs, and at the same time developing the mission and doctrine to a fine art. As well as occasionally being double tasked for other operations such as the "Ryan's Raiders" night strikes, when not flying daytime Weasel ops during Rolling Thunder.

As far as kits go, there are kits in most scales out there of the F-105s, and F-4Gs. But to do an EF-4C or F-100F, the choices are more narrow and need some conversion work.

In USN colors, the SEAD or "Iron Hand" mission was supposed to be flown by any attack aircraft in the Carrier Air Wing. The only dedicated SEAD sub variant of an attack aircraft that I am aware of is the A-6B, which had additional electronics and Standard ARM capability. As stated above the EA-6A & B were more for escort for EW jamming purposes with a secondary ARM role than for use as true "weasels". Remember that jamming enemy air defense radars also affects the ARM homing capability due to operating on the same frequencies.

I would rather do the F-105G because the Standard ARM looks meaner than  the AGM-88. The current USAF wild weasel is the F-16CJ.

Who makes a good 1/72nd F105 Wild Weasel?  

Trumpeter

Be sure that it is an F-105G or F-105F kit. The Wild Weasel was the F-105G, the F-105F can be kitbashed.

My vote goes for the Thud. It served under very adverse conditions in Nam but proved itself many times over as a deadly adversary specially when flown by great pilots like  Leo Thorsness.

The Monogram/Revell F-105 D, F and G in 1/72 or 1/48 are really good kits despite being older molds. I just got in a Trumpy 1/72 G Weasel and it looks very impressive.

seasick

Be sure that it is an F-105G or F-105F kit. The Wild Weasel was the F-105G, the F-105F can be kitbashed.

 

Visually the F & G are nearly identical. The G was a modified F airframe and not a factory production designation. The primary visual difference is the long fairings above the bombay on each side of the fuselage to house ECM gear, that was mandated to be carried (but seldom turned on due to its' interference with the Weasel gear) by 7th Air Force directives in Vietnam. When the ECM gear became part of the airframe, the pylons previously tied up were n ow free for weapons again. One other major difference is that the G had Standard ARM capability and the F did not. If you want to make an F from a G, leave off the side fairings. G's also usually carried a centerline drop tank as well, while the F usually carried a centerline MER with CBUs on Weasel missions. 

Anyone got any ref pics of a Vietnam 105 in action?  Did they achieve any kills or what?  

No pics, but they were very sucessful in killing the control vans, or forcing them to shut down and lose the guidance on the missle.  Tough job, done well.  You go in ahead of the strike and MIG CAP and try to get them to light you up and launch, then try and kill the site before it gets to you.  Once they really started with the WW flights, it saved a lot of airframes and crews.

Never worked on the Thuds in any guise ( I was attached to a Phantom base over there), but would have to give the 105 the nod.  The "G" Phantom was after my time.

They had many kills for air to ground, as far as air to air is concerned, I think there might have been a couple with the weasels, but I don't think it would be too many.  According to a ex-Thud pilot I was talking t at Kadena, they got a mig when they tried to slim down by dropping the tanks on their wings, turning and hitting their afterburner.  As they looked around for the mig that was after them they saw one tank falling and a large fireball in the sky.  The only thing they could conclude is that the mig ran into the tank.  The Air Force refused to give them credit for a kill due to lack of witness and no gun film evidence.

Your chances of findinf any photos of any fighter in action taken form another aircraft is so slim you might as well give up.  Those guys are way too busy doing their job than taking pictures, which could get them killed.

The inflight shots I posted were taken fo rme by a weasel crew on a non combat flight.  Even for these shots they had to get permission from their Commander.

I rattled on a bit but I hope it helps.

The WW's pretty much left the air to air for the MIG CAP.  They needed all hard points for SAM killing ordance. Later they might carry a sidewinder, maybe two.  The "G" Phantoms would be better equiped as I think they still had Sparrow capability, but they have to keep the target on radar for the Sparrow to home in on.

Revenant

Anyone got any ref pics of a Vietnam 105 in action?  Did they achieve any kills or what? 

Weasel driver Leo Thorsness got his Mig kill with cannon fire.

What weapons did the 105s in 'Nam use to kill the radar sites???

Revenant

What weapons did the 105s in 'Nam use to kill the radar sites???

 

They used anti radiation missiles and iron bombs. Here is a great Thud site with lots of info:

 http://www.burrusspta.org/105movies.html

Do you have a hot-link?

So what's the Trumpeter kit like?  Any reviews? 

stikpusher

In USN colors, the SEAD or "Iron Hand" mission was supposed to be flown by any attack aircraft in the Carrier Air Wing. The only dedicated SEAD sub variant of an attack aircraft that I am aware of is the A-6B, which had additional electronics and Standard ARM capability. As stated above the EA-6A & B were more for escort for EW jamming purposes with a secondary ARM role than for use as true "weasels". Remember that jamming enemy air defense radars also affects the ARM homing capability due to operating on the same frequencies.

 

What about the EA18G Growler? They are capable of SEAD/DEAD missions as well, and cause all sorts of chaos with ground radars. 

Revenant

So what's the Trumpeter kit like?  Any reviews? 

 

http://www.cybermodeler.com/hobby/kits/tru/kit_tru_1618.shtml

ChiefSmo

 

 

stikpusher

In USN colors, the SEAD or "Iron Hand" mission was supposed to be flown by any attack aircraft in the Carrier Air Wing. The only dedicated SEAD sub variant of an attack aircraft that I am aware of is the A-6B, which had additional electronics and Standard ARM capability. As stated above the EA-6A & B were more for escort for EW jamming purposes with a secondary ARM role than for use as true "weasels". Remember that jamming enemy air defense radars also affects the ARM homing capability due to operating on the same frequencies.

 

 

 

 

What about the EA18G Growler? They are capable of SEAD/DEAD missions as well, and cause all sorts of chaos with ground radars. 

 

The Growler replaced the Prowler. Again its' primary mission was Electronic Warfare Defense Suppression, with a secondary active SAM hunting role using HARMs. The A-6B was an active SAM hunter carrying no additional ECM pods as the EA-6A, EA-6B, and EA-18G do. And since the Gowler's introduction into operational service, they really have not had to go up against an enemy with an air defense really worthy of their abilities. Just like our fighter pilots have not gone head to head against enemy fighters since Spring1999 over Kosovo/Serbia/Bosnia. It has been over 17 years since we have engaged in air to air combat. Light AAA and MANPADS are the biggest threats the US aircraft in the air on current combat operations.

Revenant

What weapons did the 105s in 'Nam use to kill the radar sites???

 

Well CBU's worked great against the sites themselves.. lots of little bomblets to cover the dispersed area of the site and hit all those soft targets lile launchers, missiles, control vans...

early EF-105F loadout with CBUs and Shrikes

sometimes teh Weasels were paired with a standard Shrike armed F-105D in "hunter killer" teams where the Weasel would locate the site and intiate the attack and the D would help finish it off

Don Stauffer

Actually, not as many F-4s as I'd like.  I would like to build an F-4B in 1:72 and can't find one anymore :-(

 

Let me check my stash, Don. I've collected a fair number of the Hasegawa 1/72 Phantoms over the years; more then I'll ever build.

What's a Shrike???