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IDF/AF What-If

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  • Member since
    November 2016
Posted by Kilo 66 on Sunday, December 10, 2017 6:03 PM

midnightprowler

I love anything IDF. Fyi however, the Souix 47 helicopter is Bell not Allouette.

 

 Correct you are. Like our other American substitute aircraft, the Sioux was selected because its appearance and performance were much akin to those of an actual contemporary French-built IDF aircraft, in this case the Allouette light helo.

 A couple other WIF possibilities we had considered but somehow never got around to building were a "cafe au lait" F-105D (or perhps a two-seater F-105F) in lieu of the F-4E which became the backbone of the IDF/AF in the seventies, and a couple F-20 Tigersharks in Israeli livery. We rambled on about a single-seater we called the "F-20C" to represent an alternative for the several Blocks of one-pilot F-16s in IDF service, supplimented by what we referred to in our alternate history as the "F-20D," a tandem-seater we planned to kitbash from an F-20 and an F-5F, replete with vac-formed dorsal avionics spine and conformal fuel tanks. Maybe someday, right?  Confused                                                                                                                        

 

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: East Bethel, MN
Posted by midnightprowler on Sunday, December 10, 2017 1:08 PM

I love anything IDF. Fyi however, the Souix 47 helicopter is Bell not Allouette.

Hi, I am Lee, I am a plastiholic.

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  • Member since
    November 2016
Posted by Kilo 66 on Sunday, December 10, 2017 12:24 PM

 Thanks for your interest, pards. Thinking back, I believe both the F-5E and the F-104 were considered. It was a long time ago but I think we felt that the F-8 would have won out by virtue of two points: none of the opposition air forces used the type, easing quick visual recognition issues; and the Crusader boasted a fearsome reputation as a dogfighter and had proven admirably efficient in the CAS role. On the other hand, Pakistan's Starfighters had not performed well against India's Mig-21s and the ground attack version adopted by the West Germans had proven something of a widow maker for the Luftwaffe. Neither failing was entirely the plane's fault but would have made the tough and agile Vought fighter look all the more appealing by comparison.

 We later appended a couple other types; a well-thought-out WIF project can be like eating roasted peanuts: you can't seem to stop yourself. One end of the flight line was guarded by a 1/72 M-41 Walker Bulldog light tank (Matchbox? Airfix?) in IDF Armor Sand in lieu of the small number of AMX-13s Israel had purchased, while instead of the superb A-4 family, we pretended the IAF had adopted the A-7E and TA-7, both taking to the air in "cafe' au lait" livery (with Safety Orange panels on the two-seater's nose and wing tips). The final "imagineered" addition was an A-10 simply because no warplane and air arm ever seemed to go together as well as the Warthog and the IAF...even though that never actually happened. If memory serves, our imaginary T-Bolt II was built in-flight, dressed in a wrap-around medium brown / desert tan "lizard" camo replete with a dark gray false cockpit silhouette on her underside and bearing enough MK-82 bombs and AGM-65s to thoroughly terrorize any bad guy's AFVs.

 Thanks muchly for prompting those additional good memories of a really fun creative project and a close friend.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:28 AM

Sounds like a fun project. I would think that the The F-5A would be another good alternative for the Mirage. It was specifically designed for the export market and had similar performance to the Mirage as well.

 

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  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, December 10, 2017 11:16 AM

That’s quite a project, and impressive analysis.

I suppose an F-104 might fit in the scenario, and Jordan had a number of them at that time as well.

There were the black market B-17s.

A good memory anyways.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    November 2016
IDF/AF What-If
Posted by Kilo 66 on Sunday, December 10, 2017 1:10 AM

 More years ago than I care to recall, a friend and I had stopped for brews and falafel on the way back from the range and got to thinking about what the fledgling IDF/AF might have looked like had they not gone through their "French Honeymoon" period and opted instead for warplanes marked "Made in the USA." We decided to produce our imaginary air arm in styrene and settled on 1/72 as a constant scale, since most of the aircraft we needed weren't available in 1/48 at the time. The conspirators agreed that our "What-Ifs" ought to have the same general configurations and performance envelopes as the French stuff for which they were standing in, and would wear the same livery and markings. As best I can remember, the finished presentation was something like this.

1. Ouragon: F-84G (straight wings and tip tanks); blue-gray and brown upper surfaces, medium gray below.

2. Mystere IV: F-84F (swept wings and underwing drop tanks); after some debate, we went with the same  colors used on the Ouragon.

3. Super Mystere: F-100 Super Saber; natural metal with the bold full-length red lightening bolts that adorned both fuselage sides of the French "Super."

4. Vautour (the tandem cockpit interdiction version): B-57 in the configuration in which it bedeviled the VC and NVA over the RVN; "cafe au lait" three-color uppers (desert tan, brown, and pale green) with pale blue undersides and a medium gray spine.

5. Mirage IIICJ: F-8E with a pair of Sidewinders on each side. (I know, we could have gone with the F-102 or F-106 to mimic the delta configuration of the Mirage but the multi-mission design and performance stats of the Crusader were much closer to those of the Frence fighter. Besides, the Vought plane's proven combat performance as both a capable ACM platform and a mud mover would have appealed greatly to the practical and cash-strapped IDF... as would the fact that the"MiG Master" had GUNS.) We initially tried to present a NMF Isreali Crusader but somehow it just didn't look right. Finally it took its' place wearing the "cafe au lait" camo applied to IDF Mirages in the 70s.

6. Nord Noratlas: Only one real option here, a C-119 clad in "cafe au lait" camo.

7. Allouette: H-47 Sioux with that massive bubble canopy; overall medium brown.

8. Super Frelon: HH-3 (Memory cells faltering; I believe that was the designation for the original "Jolly Green Giant" of 'Nam SAR fame. It was closer in terms of size and performance to the French helo than the later HH-53 "Super Jolly Green.") Overall medium brown with medium gray fuselage undersides.

9. Fouga Magister: T-37; We built two, one sporting blue-gray and medium brown upper surfaces and medium gray undersides, the other overall gloss white with International Safety Orange nose and wingtips.

9A. Tzukit (the Israeli license-built version of the Magister with such upgrades as ejection seats, increased air-to-ground capabilty, and better engines): A-37 in the white/orange scheme noted above.

{In retrospect, we probably should have gone with the T-33; although it too lacked the Magister/Tzukit butterfly tail it was otherwise more a match in plan view than the "Tweet"/Dragonfly.}

 That was it, I think, at least initially. I believe the four fighters were built in-flight, the others parked on the flight line. I wish I knew where the collection was now, if it still exists at all. I bequethed it to my co-builder when I retired from big-city law enforcement nearly twenty years ago. He's gone now alas. His otherwise charming Mrs never approved of his modeling and of their sole issue, well, the less said the better. I'm certain he had no interest in his old man's "toys." Wish I could post some pictures but the only images I had were pre-digital and I can't find 'em now. Perhaps the article might inspire some among you to take up the topic as a group build...?

 

 

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