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Bell X-1 question.

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  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Bell X-1 question.
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 10:47 PM

Ok aviation people... I need your help. I am working on a Bell X-1 dio and it will loosely mimic the scene in The Right Stuff shown below. In the movie the hose under it's belly leads into the back of a military truck. Does anyone know what the purpose of that might be? I realize this is hollywood stuff, but it might have some basis in fact. 

I have been researching US Airforce ground equipment and I have found things like generator equipment and such, second image below. I don't know how long this stuff has been in use, if its era compatible, and what might best fit with what the scene depicts. I don't expect complete accuracy here but I am shooting for something that would make some sort of sence.

Any thoughts?

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 11:09 PM

I forgot to mention this. The logical solution would be to place a military truck in the dio like in the movie. Lack of space and lack of time is the reason I am not. I want to mimic the scene in a way that makes sence.

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 11:23 PM

That is 70/80's AGE equipment.  The light cart is an NF-2 which was retired before I joined the Air Force in 1987.  Just use Google Images for photos of the X-1 as it was well photographed and filmed.  Look on Youtube.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Tuesday, May 14, 2019 11:29 PM

Normally, that kind of hose is used to supply air to start a jet engine, or air conditioning to keep the crew/avionics cool.  For a rocket plane, the turbo pump probably starts by using decomposing fuel/oxidizer.  So maybe the purpose was to ventilate the X-1 of remaining fumes?  I am just guessing here, ‘cause you know, it’s rocket science!  Stick out tongue

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:10 AM

richs26

That is 70/80's AGE equipment.  The light cart is an NF-2 which was retired before I joined the Air Force in 1987.  Just use Google Images for photos of the X-1 as it was well photographed and filmed.  Look on Youtube.

 

Rich--thanks for the info. That answers the age question. Regarding Google and Utube, I have spent hours on it and thus far I seen little in terms of ground equipment, and/or such a configuration. Thus why I posted, I reached a dead end. 

Thanks for the input!

 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, May 15, 2019 8:19 AM

Real G

Normally, that kind of hose is used to supply air to start a jet engine, or air conditioning to keep the crew/avionics cool.  For a rocket plane, the turbo pump probably starts by using decomposing fuel/oxidizer.  So maybe the purpose was to ventilate the X-1 of remaining fumes?  I am just guessing here, ‘cause you know, it’s rocket science!  Stick out tongue

 

Real G, that is good input. I considered the same. Best I could figure is that  either it was for ventilation, or it was a means to keep the rocket engine cool as the crew runs it out. 

I am not sure how I will proceed. Since it is a hollywood scene, maybe I fabricate an enclosure and run a hose to it. Or, maybe I scrap that part of the build entirely. I have spent too much time and capital on this already.

Thanks for the input. 

 

  • Member since
    December, 2018
Posted by Ted4321 on Friday, May 17, 2019 6:47 AM

Bakster,

I'm about to submit an order for an x-1 and I'm curious what color you're going to use for the plane.  I think the actual color on the 1:1 is international orange which looks a little too red in photos that I've seen online. I'm still on the fence of international orange or another orange that my eye says is closer (and maybe ruin it Big Smile).

I'm sorry this is a bit off topic, but what color are you using/did you use?  

Thanks

T e d

  • Member since
    March, 2010
  • From: Boston
Posted by mach71 on Friday, May 17, 2019 8:07 AM

 

This is the MA1A start cart used in the 50's and 60's. It would probably be the time correct piece of support equipment.

 

For the movie they probably used the modern version in the set you posted. If I remember, it was off screen the whole time.

 

 

sig

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, May 17, 2019 9:24 AM

mach71

 

This is the MA1A start cart used in the 50's and 60's. It would probably be the time correct piece of support equipment.

 

For the movie they probably used the modern version in the set you posted. If I remember, it was off screen the whole time.

 

 

 

The X-1’s early flights and Yeagers flight in particular were in 1947. Was the MA1A around at that time?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 9:33 AM

stikpusher
Was the MA1A around at that time?

Others might answer this better, I am no expert. But--in my research, I did find a reference saying that it does date back to I think it was the 50s and 60. How it looked then, good question. I am sure it has changed over time.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 9:34 AM

Ted4321

Bakster,

I'm about to submit an order for an x-1 and I'm curious what color you're going to use for the plane.  I think the actual color on the 1:1 is international orange which looks a little too red in photos that I've seen online. I'm still on the fence of international orange or another orange that my eye says is closer (and maybe ruin it Big Smile).

I'm sorry this is a bit off topic, but what color are you using/did you use?  

Thanks

T e d

 

Hey Ted—no worries.
 
I hear you about the color. I have read the same thing about the available color standard in that it is too red. One of the articles noted that the builder decided to tone it down with a light shade of orange.
 
What did I do? I used Tamiya Orange (X-6) over Tamiya white primer. The primer has an effect with the color tone, so I went with a white. I did mix my own color though. I added a little Tamiya red to the orange until I got the shade I was looking for. I used photos as a guide to match against.
 
Is it an exact match? Doubtful, but good luck to anyone trying to achieve such accuracy. There are so many factors involved. I learned something entirely by accident. I learned that a topcoat of Testors DullCote will change the color tone. I learned this because I had gone through the process of painting a part that should have been painted along with the airframe. I used the same color batch, same primer, same process. After spraying, the colors didn’t match. Once I had applied the Dullcote, it matched perfectly.
 
Anyway—that is my story.
 
Thanks for asking!

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 9:41 AM

mach71

 

This is the MA1A start cart used in the 50's and 60's. It would probably be the time correct piece of support equipment.

 

For the movie they probably used the modern version in the set you posted. If I remember, it was off screen the whole time.

 

 

 

Hey Mach 71—thanks for the input!
 
Your post is timely because I was heading in a direction of building something like this. Initially, I thought of scratch building it, but I stumbled on and purchased a ground crew model kit that includes some ground equipment. Unfortunately, the equipment is modern day. BUT—what I plan to do is modify what I get. Unless someone knows something different, I'll probably build to something like this. 
 
Oh, and about the movie. I recall seeing a quick glimpse where the hose runs from the X-1 into the back of a troop transport truck. I will see if I can find the scene and screen capture it.
 
 
Thanks again!

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, May 17, 2019 10:48 AM

It isn't as easy as I would have thought to find what you are looking for. The rocket plane was unique, so the equipment would mostly be so.

One weird part of that scene is that no one is around. I did come across some Muroc images from that era, and an interesting point was that uniform standards were lax. There were also a lot of civilian contractors around. The movie isn't real time specific other than some of the actual flights. Ramp personnel during the summer was usually shirtless.

Maybe the Army had some German stuff from the Me 163 program.

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Friday, May 17, 2019 11:25 AM

We had decided that this scene was pure Hollywood in the Group Build.  The X-1 had no external hook-up for engine firing.  Besides, if you fired the engines the X-1 would be scooting across the desert floor!

The closest we found was this image:

The only hose in evidence was a fire hose!  Perhaps someone can identify that truck on the far left.  I think it's a fire truck, but can't be certain.

I think whatever Bakster comes up with will probably be A-OK!  Big Smile

Gary

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 11:40 AM

GMorrison
It isn't as easy as I would have thought to find what you are looking for.

Bill—I agree. I was amazed at how little I could find on this. Even regarding the ground equipment of the time.

GMorrison
One weird part of that scene is that no one is around. I did come across some Muroc images from that era, and an interesting point was that uniform standards were lax. There were also a lot of civilian contractors around. The movie isn't real time specific other than some of the actual flights. Ramp personnel during the summer was usually shirtless.

Correct about that scene. Which makes me question if this is Hollywood for effect. Or is it loosely based on some actual historic data.

Thanks for trying, sir.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 11:42 AM

GAF
I think whatever Bakster comes up with will probably be A-OK!

Lol...

 

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Friday, May 17, 2019 12:57 PM

I just watched that scene again.  There are actually two trucks there.  One with what may be a tank or two tanks on the back.  Hard to tell.

Gary

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, May 17, 2019 1:39 PM

I would think that the old Tamiya Willys Jeep would fit right in (no MG).

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 1:48 PM

Interesting. I need to take a closer look at that scene.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, May 17, 2019 2:00 PM

Just found this nice movie still of the scene

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 2:01 PM

GMorrison

I would think that the old Tamiya Willys Jeep would fit right in (no MG).

 

That is a seriously cool thought, Bill. I like that idea. It could apply to the scene nicely. I see two potential problems though. The Jeep is 1:35 scale and the plane is 1:48 scale. The second issue is the size of my base might not handle a vehicle without overpowering or crowding the plane. A jeep would certainly be smaller than a troop carrier type of vehicle. Great idea.  

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 2:04 PM

stikpusher

Just found this nice movie still of the scene

 

 

BINGO!  Thanks Stik! That saves me the time.

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Friday, May 17, 2019 2:36 PM

Just for completeness, here's the overall view of the scene.

I had to break out my DVD and take a screen shot for this one.  Big Smile

Gary

PS> Hasegawa made a 1/48th scale jeep model.  I just happen to have one in my stash. Wink

  • Member since
    March, 2010
  • From: Boston
Posted by mach71 on Friday, May 17, 2019 2:59 PM

Thats a cool screencap!

I'm sure that inside the truck is the "modern" air unit to supply the high pressure air.

As I said in the other thread, I'm sure what is going on in the scene is the X-1 mockup has some fuel source inside and burning out the exhaust, the high pressure air from the truck is used to blow the flame backward to look like a rocket. Very effective, but unrealistic historically. It still looks VERY cool and will make a very nice display!

sig

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 4:12 PM

GAF

Just for completeness, here's the overall view of the scene.

I had to break out my DVD and take a screen shot for this one.  Big Smile

Gary

PS> Hasegawa made a 1/48th scale jeep model.  I just happen to have one in my stash. Wink

 

You guys are really stepping it up. Thanks about the Hasegawa too. I will look into that possibility over the weekend. A jeep would look pretty cool and it would be a nice throwback to that era. Maybe mount a box in the back of it that a hose would connect to. Yes

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, May 17, 2019 4:14 PM

Now you've done it. One of my favorite movies. I read an oral history of the creation of the script and the casting. 

https://www.wired.com/2014/11/oral-history-of-right-stuff/

"There were these wonderful guys who built these models that were really beautifully detailed. These guys loved their planes. At one point when the guy was flying the X-1, he landed it too hard. It burst into pieces. He was a burly guy who had built this thing. He went over to it and picked it up. He was in tears."

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 4:16 PM

mach71
I'm sure what is going on in the scene is the X-1 mockup has some fuel source inside and burning out the exhaust, the high pressure air from the truck is used to blow the flame backward to look like a rocket. Very effective, but unrealistic historically. It still looks VERY cool and will make a very nice display!

That makes a lot of sence, Mach. And yeah--I think it looks cool too. It would give the dio more dept to it other than a lone plane sitting there. In other words, it's doing something.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 4:19 PM

GMorrison

Now you've done it. One of my favorite movies. I read an oral history of the creation of the script and the casting. 

 

Laughing.  So, what tidbits can you share that we might not know about? Please share.

And yes--this is one of my all-time favorite movies. The DVD comes out once a year for my viewing enjoyment. 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Friday, May 17, 2019 5:06 PM

GMorrison
https://www.wired.com/2014/11/oral-history-of-right-stuff/ "There were these wonderful guys who built these models that were really beautifully detailed. These guys loved their planes. At one point when the guy was flying the X-1, he landed it too hard. It burst into pieces. He was a burly guy who had built this thing. He went over to it and picked it up. He was in tears."

Thanks, Bill. I will read it from beginning to end!

  • Member since
    December, 2018
Posted by Ted4321 on Friday, May 17, 2019 5:38 PM

Bakster

 

 
Ted4321

Bakster,

I'm about to submit an order for an x-1 and I'm curious what color you're going to use for the plane.  I think the actual color on the 1:1 is international orange which looks a little too red in photos that I've seen online. I'm still on the fence of international orange or another orange that my eye says is closer (and maybe ruin it Big Smile).

I'm sorry this is a bit off topic, but what color are you using/did you use?  

Thanks

T e d

 

 

 

Hey Ted—no worries.
 
I hear you about the color. I have read the same thing about the available color standard in that it is too red. One of the articles noted that the builder decided to tone it down with a light shade of orange.
 
What did I do? I used Tamiya Orange (X-6) over Tamiya white primer. The primer has an effect with the color tone, so I went with a white. I did mix my own color though. I added a little Tamiya red to the orange until I got the shade I was looking for. I used photos as a guide to match against.
 
Is it an exact match? Doubtful, but good luck to anyone trying to achieve such accuracy. There are so many factors involved. I learned something entirely by accident. I learned that a topcoat of Testors DullCote will change the color tone. I learned this because I had gone through the process of painting a part that should have been painted along with the airframe. I used the same color batch, same primer, same process. After spraying, the colors didn’t match. Once I had applied the Dullcote, it matched perfectly.
 
Anyway—that is my story.
 
Thanks for asking!
 

Thanks for the info. I sure hope the movie is available on Netflix or on demand.  I wanna watch it again. 

I'm excited to see your work. 

T e d

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