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F4F-4 And Operation Torch

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  • Member since
    April 2010
Posted by Theuns on Monday, August 9, 2021 12:13 AM

Remeber als that even if newly painted there might be a slight different look to the controll surfaces and wings/fuse because the texture betwen the alclad and the fabric is not the same even if the same paint is used. It will refract light a little differently.

Also when a repair was made to the fabric not nesessarly the entire surface would be repianted, they would most likely just repaint the affected area that will also have a difference between new and old paint.

 

Theuns

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, August 8, 2021 4:54 PM

Photographs from the era can be a bit of a rabbit hole.

This very muh related to how they were printed on an enlarger.  "Dodging" and "burning" while on the enlarger were pretty common to get the desired print out of the exposed film.

The film stock the image was printed upon mattered, especially for when it was scanned digitally.

It was really hard to get "safety" shots (going up or down an exposure, or shutter speed) while taking "action" shots.  So, the photographer often tried for the middle, and knew they could try and salavage the shot on the enlarger when actually printing the photo.

And not one of those schmos gave one thought to the people, 75 years later who would pour over those photos picking out details.  Those meanies.  Smile

  • Member since
    August 2009
Posted by cvsusn on Friday, August 6, 2021 2:06 PM

Greg,

Oops! You're probably right re posting photo.

Yeah, that rope also looks like there's a pulley attached. No flight deck crew around the plane.. No chocks present. Loose tie-down? It appears the pilot is on his roll. He must have been pissed flying with that thing banging around.

Tanker-Builder,

You could be right, but it appears at this point these aircraft were testing their .50 cals. Hazarding a guess, Ranger is in the eastern Atlantic a couple of days prior to the landings. Any major maintenance for all planes is finished.

Carl

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, August 6, 2021 1:39 PM

Hi;

 I do remember an Aircraft Gunners Mate telling me that if major repairs of engine replacements were done they would do what 9F18 is doing is sighting in the guns.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Friday, August 6, 2021 12:58 PM

Looks like you might have used the search page location instead of that for the photo itself.

Note that it's trailing what looks like a rope on it's bomb shackle:

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    August 2009
Posted by cvsusn on Friday, August 6, 2021 12:44 PM

Looks like I mucked it up.

  • Member since
    August 2009
Posted by cvsusn on Friday, August 6, 2021 12:42 PM

Greg, 

Makes sense. "Tilley" is still attached with the tow bar.

More as a test to ensure I can post pics, here's plane 25 about to launch. Nice look at the undercarriage and bottom of the plane.

F4F-4 Operation Torch

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Friday, August 6, 2021 10:18 AM

cvsusn
Just a fascinating scene. Expanding the photo two sailors are visible with a pole aft of 9 F 20. Looks like they're painting, but no paint bucket is visible. Could be under the plane. Washing maybe?

More likely they just unfolded the wings. The Wildcat had removable support struts that ran from the folded wing to the leading edge of the stabs. Once the wings were unlimbered, the struts would be stowed away inside the fuselage.

Actually...looking at the photo again...the 'pole' may be just a tie-down line. The same can be seen on 9F9. The attachment eye is the same one used for the fold struts.

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    August 2009
Posted by cvsusn on Friday, August 6, 2021 9:43 AM

Thanks, all! Baron, thanks for posting the photo. I see how to do it next time.

After looking at the photo again it is apparent that there is substantial lightening of the photo along both sides and bottom. Still, there is substantial fading on the planes themselves to replicate.

Just a fascinating scene. Expanding the photo two sailors are visible with a pole aft of 9 F 20. Looks like they're painting, but no paint bucket is visible. Could be under the plane. Washing maybe?

What's the interest around 9 F 18? .50 cal firing?

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Friday, August 6, 2021 7:39 AM

Here's the pic, by the way...

I agree with Greg.  If I were building a Torch Wildcat, this image tells me to lighten the blue grey, but still retaining enough of the bluish tint.  It's a subtle difference, but the eye can pick it up.

 

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    June 2013
Posted by bvallot on Friday, August 6, 2021 6:43 AM

Hey Carl, keep in mind also the limitations of the camera in use that was taking the photograph. If you look closer you will see the borders on the left and right are lighter in color. Light was possibly sneaking in a tiny bit and overexposed that part of the film. So it will make that Wildcat in the foreground look considerably more faded. No matter how it's happening, it is more a feature of the film and not so much the subject in the picture. 
You're right about the trim tabs. They were often done as aluminum pieces within the rudder or elevators on most planes.  The fabric doped around the rest of it would of course weather faster. And yes... the blue-grey paint would fade to a lighter blue-grey. Plenty more examples of that to find in the Pacific. 

On the bench:  

Tamiya F4U-1  Kenneth Walsh

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Friday, August 6, 2021 1:39 AM

Short-wavelength colors in the blue range of the spectrum are typically most resistant to UV fading. A lighter blue-grey would be more likely than bleaching out to a true grey.

Greg

George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
 
  • Member since
    August 2009
F4F-4 And Operation Torch
Posted by cvsusn on Friday, August 6, 2021 1:07 AM

I'm currently in the build stage for Hobby Boss's 1/48 F4F-4 during Operation Torch. Looking ahead to painting and weathering I came across this photo of absolute weathering goodness.

https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:F4F-4_CV-4_11_1942.jpg

The fading on the metal surfaces runs the gamut from minimal fading on plane 9 F 9 to what appears to be a very faded 9 F 20 right next to it.

The fabric surfaces are in a world of their own yet the trim tab on the rudder must be metal. Looking all the way forward, plane 25 has the darkest rudder which implies a recent painting or new rudder. 

My question is to what color would the fabric fade? A grey? A lighter blue grey?

Thanks!

Carl

 

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