BF109E3 cockpit detail

Rick, Can't thank you enough.
I agree, re the correctness of kits. The whole idea is to build the "model" of the "original". Not a concept or artistic interpretation. (at least in this case.)
My reference library contains several out of print and no longer commercially available titles on a variety of subjects. If there is a will there is a way and someone looking to sell it. If squadron no longer carries it, I'm sure I can find it on Ad Libris, ABE books or any one of several used book sellers. (I'm pretty much a paper and cardboard crack whore when it comes to reference books. )

I received the title that Dave reccomended and it is very helpful. Thanks Dave.

Well guys, again thanks. Once more into the breech good friends.....

Regards,
Mike

A last postscript. I forgot to address your question on the significance of references such as Black 2 or Yellow 6. This has become a convention by historians in describing Luftwaffe aircraft and I really don't know why. It has no particular meaning other than a verbal description of the designation carried on a particular aircraft. You will see references such as "Black Double Chevron and Bars" or "Black Rectangle and Bars" etc. as well as number references. When these descriptions are accompanied by profile drawings they do seem a little redundant.

Rick

Can't leave this one alone. First off, the Bf-109E-4 featured in the January 2003 issue of FSM is a very attractive model, but the builder chose to drape the seatbelts over the top of the seat back which is incorrect and shows a lack of very basic research on the subject of which a scale model replica is supposedly being created. It's unfortunate that publications like FSM feature articles on models that include gross errors in detail. I suspect more than a few readers, like Dave maybe, will simply follow such articles rather than looking at references of the real aircraft and thus incorporate the same errors when they build their models. A lot of excellent references on the Bf-109E have been published, but since my library dates back to the early 70's when I started building scale model aircraft, I'm not sure which are still available. The one that should be around is Squadron/Signal publication "Messerschmitt Bf-109 in action - Part 1". This soft cover book covers the 109 from the early B models through the late E-7 models, with major emphasis on the E's. In addition to photograhs, it includes excellent line drawings of the E seat/seatbelt configuration and three view drawings of the cockpit layout. For the scale modeler, if not the historian, this single reference is about all you need to detail any 109E model. I beleive it is still available from Squadron but I haven't checked their web-site. A companion publication, Part 2 of the series, covers the continuing development of the Bf-109 from the early F to late G models. This book is also good but not quite as useful to the scale modeler as the 109E book.

Mike, the subject of Luftwaffe heraldry has filled a few books,but the simple answer to your question is that most of the heraldry was a symbol of the particular Jagdeschwader and/or Gruppen that the aircraft was assigned too. These displays were most prominent early in the war and waned with the German's fortunes in later years. Individual pilot graphics were less prevalent and pretty much limited to the very top Luftwaffe aces. Galand's famous tuetonic Mickey Mouse is a well known example of pilot ego.

Hope Iv'e been helpful. Good luck on your Tamiya 109E-3. Be careful with the tailplanes as the support braces are too short and can result in anheidral droop if your not careful.

Rick

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Thanks Dave. Ordered it. On the way.

Guys,
Much of the reference material I've seen so far has put a great deal of emphasis on the plane numbering. i.e. Black 2 or Yellow 6. Was there that much notoriety to German pilots and there particular plane? What is the "big deal" about there numbers. The German nose art has me fascinated. Though not as pin up oriented as the US examples, they seemingly use alot of heraldry or similar graphics to decorate their planes. Is this as much a Lufte' pilots choice as a squadron? (side note here, I did see a US plane from WWI that sported a swastika on its tail. It was Zuni Indian petroglyph that someone was using, very clean lined and graphic though and if you didn't know better you'd say it was an early German plane, but sort of ironic for its time).

Mike

You know Mike,

The one book I forgot to tell you about, is "Building the Messerschmitt Bf-109" by Kevin Hjermstad and Glen Phillips.
There is enough 109 projects in here to keep you busy for a long time to come.
You should be able to order it from Fine Scale here, Kalmbach Books, or if you have a well stocked hobby shop around you, they should have it in stock.
And like Wilbur said to Orrville "lets' put some wings on it this time, see if we can get it to fly". Good luck,Dave

Thanks guys, I've been reviewing the kit and have pretty much waited till I could get some more info. I started on some components like running lines down the wheel struts, cleaning up little bits here and there, but no assembly yet. I've been putting together the reference material. Checking parts. Seeing what needs to be done here and there. I drove up to the local air museum because someone had told me that they had an ME. When I got there, it turned out to be a 208 they are restoring. Its stripped down to the fueselage.
In the meantime I've been scouring the libraries and looking through the stores for material and there seems to be a void. Lots of G's, J's but E#'s seem to be getting the short end of the stick.
You guys have been a great help. Any other info you can suggest or source material would help.

This has been the first aircraft I've done in 30 years.

Thanks,
Mike

Hello every one,

Renarts,
If you have not committed yet,
there was a very recent issue of Fine Scale Modeller, that had a build up on the -3. January of this year as a matter of fact.
Very good build up, very good article, you won't need much more than this to get 'ya goin'.
Hope this is some help...Dave

The seatbelt configuration I described is correct for all E model 109's. The F models were unique airframes and had different seats and seat belt configuration from the E. The G models were also unique from the F's. My references show early E models with straps on the rudder pedals.

Rick

Butz and I have been doing some research here after our monthly meeting and here's what we have, which is not much different from what's already been said. (Save his typo on RLM 02, not 03!) (Is this perhaps the first joint post in the short history of the FSM forum?)

The configuration for the belts mentioned by rjkplasticmod is, I believe, unique to the early 109's up to and perhaps including the Friedrich. (?) The cockpits of the later variants were, indeed, pretty much completely different.

The rudder pedals for the Emils, however, may not be so simple a matter. Some had straps and some had a solid retaining bar. You could probably toss a coin for that one, though I have a feeling that the bars may have been more prevalent. Could be wrong on that, though.

RLM 02 Grau is the color you should use for an Emil cockpit as well as landing gear.

Flaps Up, Mike / Fade to Black...

Don't use the Bf-109-G reference for a Bf-109-E-3 interior! The G model interior is completely different from the E model. The E model seatbelts anchored behind the seat to a single attachment point and fed through a slot in the seat. The basic cockpit interior was painted RLM 02 Grau. The rudder pedals had straps.

Whaz up renarts,
At the moment I'm away from my "hobby room", so this is all by memory(or what memory that I have left LMFAO) I had built Tamiya's 109E-3 in hungarian markings about a year ago(Cmdrs a/c, overall black over a light green undersurface w/ hints of red and yellow)
For the interior I believe it is RLM 03 grey or slightly lighter. I want to say that the harnesses were attached to the bulkhead from behind the seat which came over the top of the seat. Was it a single attachment point or seperate??, I want to say a single point. Like I said this all from memory.
I used stretched sprue(very thin) for the antenna wire. It goes from the mast to the top of the tail w/ a second wire just aft of the mast that goes from the first wire and is attached to the side of the a/cs fuselage. The insulator was placed where the two wires met. For the insulator I used white glue(build up in small amounts though)
As for the pedals I'm drawing a blank.
How much detail you put into a model is all up to you my friend. Best thing is to check w/ your references on the 109 or do a search on the net
Ref's:
Bf 109 "In Action" part 1 & 2 and there a quite a few others that I cant think of at this moment.(I know I'm ashamed of myself so I go sit in box for 5 min LMAO)
Hope this kinda makes sense and helps ya out.
Flaps up,Mike

Sorry. Previous reply looks as though I was drunk!
It should have read;
Have a look at FSM Sepember '97 Page 60
Although this is a 109G article, the basis of the cockpit is the same as the E model.
Guess I'll give up modelling and do a crash course in typing
Arfa

Have lok as FSM September '97 page 60.
Although this is a 109G aricle, the basis of the cockpit is the same as the E model.
If you need any further references I do have a few
Arfa

Not sure on seatbelt details and whatnot but I remember reading somewhere how someone made the aerial cones by taking sheet styrene and a heated plumbbob and by pressing it into the styrene the cones were formed and removed with a razor blade. As far as the coils, try wrapping some thin, stiff wire tightly around a needle and then cutting to the appropriate length and gluing to your aerial.