Dam Buster lanc gun turrets

According to the Squadron "Lancaster in Action" book, there was a single .303 gun aft of the bomb bay. but it was not in a turret.

Jim

Cheers for the info Jim. looks like i've got another book to buy as i have got 5 lanc kits to build, not all as bambusters though. many thanks. Greg

Hi there,

For Operation Chastise, my references show twin 303s in the nose turret, quad 303s in the tail. Top turret removed and faired over. Don't recall Lancs with a belly turret?

Check out Scale Aircraft Modelling Vol25, Iss 3 (May 2003) - Should be in WH Smith as we speak! They've got a 60th Anniversary of the Dams raid article, with some side views of the aircraft involved.

Hiya Team-Tornado the things that caused the confusion are 1 the revell kit with the turret and 2 the film i saw on discovery channel of gibsons a/c with something that could be a gun barrel just aft of the bomb bay......cheers for the info ..Gregers

Hi Gregers,

Just re-read the article in SAM,

The Lancasters used were modified to Type 464 (Provisioning) standard and the following was mentioned about one of the Mods carried out on Gibsons aircraft:

'ED825/G was fitted with a free, ball mounted under fuselage machine gun, which is shown in the original drawings, but as far as is known, no other aircraft carried such a fitting, and it is unknown if it was still in place on ED825 at the time of Operation Chastise'.

Doesn't solve the mystery entirely, but if you weren't making Gibsons a/c in particular, it resolves the problem!

Hiya Team-Tornado many thanks. went and got that issue of SAM. all the info i needed. again many thanks both to you and JGUIGNARD....Gregers

Gregers:

Per the Squadron book once again, there were three prototypes used for the mine-dropping tests - ED765/G, ED817/G, and ED825/G. A photo supposedly of ED825/G shows what appears to be a gun aft of the bomb bay area. If ED825/G was the only one with the extra gun and did not participate in the raid, it would appear you don't have to worry about it if you are depicting an aircraft that was part of the raid.

Jim

From the info i have now got and what i already had the /G suffix designated aircraft that had to be kept under armed guard whilst on the ground. Gibsons a/c also had the individual a/c code G after the squadron code AJ and the /G was painted out just prior to the raid hopefuly the mystery is now sorted but if anyone knows more please let me know and i hope this info is of use to others too...cheers Gregers

Aha! didn't realise there were 3 different a/c with the 'G' suffix!

ED825 wasn't Gibsons' aircraft at all, but did take part in the raid carrying squadron codes AJ -T, and flown by Flt Lt J.C. McCarthy.

We got there eventually!

Cheers,

Rob M.

Hi there,
My father was a lancaster pilot .not on the dambusters,but i have no knowledge of the type carrieng underbelly guns.
Why dont you try 617 squadron's wabsite,if you contact the squadron,i'm sure they would help.
merv
"now indeed thrive the armourers"

Rob M:

The Squadron book states that ED825 did not participate in the raid. That book came out over 20 years ago, however. Conflicting information is what keeps researching colors and markings interesting, eh ? I will have to get a hold of that SAM issue.

Jim

Spike:

Thanks for the tip on the 617 Squadron site. I did not know that such a site even existed. Lots of neat stuff there ! For all of you who would like to check it out, go here :

http://www.dambusters.org.uk/ .

Jim

Had to call my grandfather in England for this one... he was a Bombadier for 617Sqd and participated in both the DAMNS Raid and the attack on TIRPITZ (SP) According to his memory, there was only the nose turrent and the tail turrent

Hi everyone cheers for all your answers on this one i will check out that 617 site when i log off this one Thanks Spike and Jim. Awood23 thanks for taking the time to ring your grandfather, much appreciated. I will be building Gibsons a/c without the belly gun and a 617 "grand slam" a/c. again many thanks ...Gregers

Hi, only one aircraft was fitted with a "belly gun" It was removed and no aircraft on dams raid flew with one. Hope this helps.

Hi Angelo thanks for the help you can never have too much info on a project like this one. I have also found out that some the B2 version of the lanc -the one with bristol radial engines - had these turrets so one of the 5 lanc kits that i have is going to be converted to one of these... Gregers

I believe that the turret may have been left installed, but the gun removed. The Dam Busters had a special bomb that had to be released at an exact altitude and distance from the Ruhr Dams they were trying to bust.

The distance was calculated by simple but effective method. a special 'Y' shaped jig was built and mounted in the cockpit. It worked somewhat like a gun sight. At the two ends of the forks of the Y were two small vertical posts. The pilot or co-pilot put his chin on the base of the Y. as the plane approached the dam, the twin towers of the dam could be seen 'inside' the two posts on the jig. As the bomber got closer to the towers, they appeared to move outwards. When the towers were obscured by the posts on the jig, the plane was at the exactly correct range to release the bomb.

The problem of altitude was attacked in a similar manner. Two search lights were put on either the belly or lower wing suface of the bomber, and the lights were set to converge at the exact altitude required for release. I believe that the belly turret gunner talked the pilot to the right altitude over the intercom. As the plane gained or lost altitude, the lights would converge.

Best Regards,

Jimf

The May/03 issue of SCAKE AIRCRAFT MODELLING has an article on the Dam Raiders. It says that Lancaster ED825/G was fitted with a ball-mounted machinegun in the ventral position but it is not known if it was still in place during the attack on the dams. The article also says that ED825 was the only one of 617 Sq. aircraft so equipped

Hi Dogsbody cheers for the info , i've got that mag now.....Gregers

Hi Gang. Just letting you all know that i cut first plastic on this project today. With a bit of luck by the time i've completed it i will have figured out how to use my new digital camera (thanks Bev) and how to post pics on this forum. Thanks y'all....Gregers

on damb.no but the canadians of 100group saw the belly as a blindspot and installed their own turrets



masu

Hi All just letting you all know that the lanc is coming along nicely,everything is sanded (to get rid of all those damned rivets), the wings are assembled and the inside walls of the fuselage are detailed and i am working on the turrets and cockpit and scratchbuilding the instrument panel/control yolk e.c.t. again thanks for all your help later....greg

A couple of aditions you could make to a Dams Raid Lanc.
Put stirrups, allsame horse rider, on the nose gunners feet. These were to keep his feet clear of the bombaimers head. (ref Dam Busters Paul Brickhill)
And the bombaimer used the pronged sight not the pilot too damn bussy and definately not the "co-pilot" 'cause the Lanc didn't have one! The nav used to stand by to drag the pilot out of his seat or hold the controls if anything happened to the said pilot.
Dai

Cheers for the info there Dai, much appreciated.....Greg