John McCain

nsclcctl,

Ditto, I also would like to do a model of a McCain aircraft. I do know that it was an A-4 Skyhawk. Given the timeframe it could have been a B, C, E, or F. The C, E, and F are the most likely possibility.

I'll let you know what I find out, please do the same. The great thing is the Hasagawa Skyhawk kit releases cover all the possibilities. Now if a decal maker would do the decals we would be in great shape! rangerj

Interesting fellow, John McCain, one morning he was sitting in the cockpit of his A-4 on the deck of the USS Forrestal preparing to launch on a strike mission, when a Phantom parked across the deck from him accidentally fired a zuni rocket into his A-4 starting the Forrestal Fire. He got out just before the plane exploded. Risky business being a Naval Aviator.

Tom

Forgot to give you the main information. Lieutenant Commander John McCain was flying an A-4E on October 26, 1967 when he was shot down over North Vietnam. The aircraft Bureau Number was 149959 and its Modex was AH 300 (thats the number painted on the A/C and used to identify it in the Airwing). He was flying off the USS Oriskany at the time with VA-163 (attack squadron). The squadron was part of CAG 16 (Carrier Air Wing).

Hope this gets you started.
Tom

This is great, I went on the web and found some of this out as well. Question is, anyone built one of these and what was the color scheme. I am sure I will not get the exact markings. Probably have to paint them on. Anybody have a favorite kit? I see Hasegawa has one, I would like it in 1:72.

The best A4 I have seen is in 1/48 - the Hasegawa one, it is really very good. I have made a Fujimi A4F (converted it into an RNZAF A4K) in 1/72, and it was a nice little kit with no real troubles, had pretty good engraved detail, but it didn't have a hump, and I can't remember if the kit had one as an option.

Here's a shot, from that fateful day, of the "Forest Fire", as the Forrestal has come to be known.



Fade to Black...

In reading different accounts, I assume McCain acted honorably. He gets so much grief but it is not clear to me why there are so many detractors. I know this is not a fan club site but I am wondering what is going on. Seems that the errant missile was not his fault, was some faulty electrical quirk. He climbed out of the plane, apparantly carried two sailors to safety, and then when given the option to go stateside, he volunteered and transferred to another carrier. Then, he was shot down. Anyway. I am looking for pictures of his actual plane to try and get it right. Haven't found it yet.

Navy aircraft of the period would have been Gull Gray on top, Insignia White on the bottom.

John McCain acted admirably and honorably on all counts. He refused to be released as a POW when it was offered, and opted to stay with his fellow prisoners. Early release was offered to him because of his father's position in the Navy.

He elected to stay, and endured the torture. It does not get any more honorable than that.

It was correctly stated above that this is not a John McCain fan club. However, we do build models that are monuments to those who flew the real aircraft, Richard I. Bong's P-38s for example.

There are a few Skyhawks that come to mind as being representative of the aircrafts significance, the "Lady Jesse", A "C" variant that shot down a MIG (dumb luck) with a burst of air -to- ground rockets, and John McCain's. rangerj

The fire on the USS Forrestal was started by maintenance error. An F-4 was fully loaded with Zuni rockets, MK 82 LDGP, and Sidewinders for a mission. Someone parked a gas turbine power unit by the acft because maintenance was being performed. Time lapse photo's show the GTU in correct position. As the deck crew started towing acft on the deck, photo's show the GTU pushed closer to the F-4, with the exhaust pointing directly at the Zuni rockets war head. The rockets cooked off and exploded. The fuel cell was ruptured and that is what started the fire. When the Sidewinders rocket motors cooked off, that is what hit McCain's plane. When the 500 hundred pounders cooked of and exploded that started the chain reaction that almost resulted in the loss of the carrier.

If anybody has the notion, The History Channel has a great documentary on the "Forrestfire." I've seen it about a thousand times, and the documentary is now required viewing for those entering Navy boot camp as part of their basic fire-fighting instruction, mainly on how NOT to fight fires.

nsclcctl, according to interviews with Senator McCain, one of the main reasons he decided to stay imprisoned was due to the fact that the junior personnel incarcerated with him looked up to him, as he was one of the senior officers. Also, according to the Military Code of Conduct for Pprisoners of War, you cannot accept preferential treatment from your captors,reguardless of rank or heritage. If he had taken the release, it would have been a severe blow against his honor, and that of the armed forces.

As far as an A4 model, Hasegawa's 1/48 E/F is a very good kit, with lots of detail. I highly recommend it.

demono69

Senator McCain said in an interview recently that he basically shot himself down. He had fired some rockets and they didn't get out of the way of his a/c, believe it or not. Also, I was on a tin can on North SAR station off Haiphong the day of the Forrest Fire; we were on standby to go down and try to help, but another can was called. We could see her fires on the horizon. John McCain can be seen walking along the A4's refueling probe before jumping down onto the deck.

Wow! With a little digging, I wonder if VA-163 was a little snake-bit:
September 9, 1965:
CDR (later VADM) James B. Stockdale, Commander Air Wing 16, was shot down by enemy anti-aircraft fire while flying with VA-163 in A-4E Skyhawk BuNo. 151134, AH 352 on a combat mission over North Vietnam. Stockdale spent 7+ years as a Prisoner Of War until his release in early 1973.

October 26, 1967:
A-4E Skyhawk BuNo. 149959, AH 300 was shot down by a surface-to-air missile (SAM) during a combat mission over North Vietnam. The pilot Lieutenant Commander John S. McCain III, successfully ejected and was made Prisoner of War.

Also found an A-4E hanging from the rafters at Pensacola Naval Air Museum in VA-163 colors at: http://www.skyhawk.org/6E/va163a4e.jpg

A link to a pic of the aftermath:
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2003/02/stuff_eng_photo_deck_landings.htm

It's at the bottom of the page but the other pics are worth looking at too.

John McCain had an interesting naval aviation career. Among his other achievements, he was a "black ace", meaning he had destroyed over 5 American aircraft.

JimF MA

Good reading,  researching to do a McCain build as well 

When I was flight instructing, a gentleman walked into the flight school asking for a ride up to S. Carolina to get his Pitts airplane. He had a VA-163 hat and I started asking him about it. Turned out he was squadron mates with McCain. It was a nice 3 hour chat with him.

Search the web using the BU number of the aircraft and there are numerous pictures of the aircraft he was flying on the day he was shot down. He is "turning in" (for a bombing run) with his CAG shortly before the shootdown by a SAM in one of the pictures.

There is an A4C  painted in the markings of the aircraft that shot down a Mig using "Kentucky windage" with as zini rocket. There were two Migs in that fight. The other Mig bugged out when his buddy got shot down. The pilot was LTCR T.R. Swartz in Aircraft BU no. 148609.  

If you're going to do this in 1/72, the best kit out there is the Fujimi kit. Unfortunately, they are OOP at the moment and somewhat rare.  In perusing everybody's favorite auction site, there was one available from Japan for 82.00.  The seller was nice enough to throw in free shipping.  The Hasegawa kit has been around since the late 70's early 80's.  This means it can be had cheaply and easily.  However, it is not a shake and bake by any means.  I really should finish mine.

eaglecentral

Interesting fellow, John McCain, one morning he was sitting in the cockpit of his A-4 on the deck of the USS Forrestal preparing to launch on a strike mission, when a Phantom parked across the deck from him accidentally fired a zuni rocket into his A-4 starting the Forrestal Fire. He got out just before the plane exploded. Risky business being a Naval Aviator.

Tom

 

 

Technically, the Zuni rocket hit the A4 of  Lieutenant Commander Fred D. White, Mcain was next to him. 

lewbud

If you're going to do this in 1/72, the best kit out there is the Fujimi kit. Unfortunately, they are OOP at the moment and somewhat rare. In perusing everybody's favorite auction site, there was one available from Japan for 82.00. The seller was nice enough to throw in free shipping. The Hasegawa kit has been around since the late 70's early 80's. This means it can be had cheaply and easily. However, it is not a shake and bake by any means. I really should finish mine.

Hello!

I'd like to second the opinnion on the Fujimi kits - those babies are really fine. Watch out for the Hasegawa - not only it doesn't have any cockpit worth mentioning, it's also about half an inch too long when you calculate the dimensions, so I wouldn't recommend it. The Airfix new1:72 A-4B is a beauty of a kit - you can buy a conversion (new resin nose) to turn it into A-4C - the most popular variant in Vietnam. If you want to make an A-4E or F, you need different engine intakes, so I say you either get one of the Fujimi sets, or try to kitbash something and the Airfix kit (the wings and the tail would work all right). Anyhow - good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł