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Canopies Canopies, oh my!

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  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA
Canopies Canopies, oh my!
Posted by nsclcctl on Friday, June 13, 2003 7:57 AM
Before I left for work this morning, I make my usual round through my model room in the basement. There sitting in the morning sun are two completed Thunderbolts and all the 1:48 WWII birds and a new F14 I completed in 1:72. Sitting there on the bench, assembled and waiting for airbrushing are a 1:48 Tamiya birdcage Corsair, a 1:48 Messerschmidt, a 1:72 F18 and now an almost assembled Academy B24. Oh the B24. As I ponder the color possibilities from easy on the corsair to a challenge on the Messerschmidt back to easy on the B24, I try to ignore those canopies. Oh, the masking on that birdcage, the curves on that F18, the messerschmidt, did I mention that canopy? Finally, that B24 with all that clear plastic. Somebody help!!!!! I hate masking canopies. I have tried the liquid mask and can't figure it out. Somebody please expolain this liquid mask to me. When to do apply it and so forth. Please let me finish these so I can move on to my 1:700 waterline Hornet.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 13, 2003 8:55 AM
The only mask that works for me is scotch magic tape - the green one.
I de- tack it on my forehead or the palm of my hand then cut about 3mm of
straight strips to line the canopy frame, then just fill in the rest with the uneven
bits.
Burnish the tape with your fingernail and spray away.
The small strips go around curves nicely and if you fold over a little bit of tape on the overlaps removal is sooooooo much easier .
Another trick a friend of mine uses also uses the tape strips ,but the remaining area is covered with liquid mask.
A lot faster but doesnt always work.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: United Kingdom / Belgium
Posted by djmodels1999 on Friday, June 13, 2003 8:57 AM
You might want to try sticking on some pre-painted, thin strips of masking tape (or a similar tape) onto the framework. Saves painting them all and all that aggravation..! I personally only use paitbrushes for this work (and my trusty cocktail sticks to scrape off excess, dried-up, paint... But the tape system works wonder.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: West Des Moines, IA USA
Posted by jridge on Friday, June 13, 2003 10:10 AM
I've used Cutting Edge masks with success on 1/48 scale stuff.

Do a search on the forums for "bare metal foil". There's lots of talk about using it for canopy masking --- lots of success stories.
Jim The fate of the Chambermaid http://30thbg.1hwy.com/38thBS.html
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 13, 2003 10:20 AM
I use the the bare metal foil masking technique most of the time when painting canopies. It is far thinner than regular masking tape and allows you to see the full detail of the canopy frame for easy trimming. When properly burnished and trimmed, there is very little risk of paint bleed and the frames come out crisp and accurate (well at least as accurate as the molded frames on the canopy).
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Friday, June 13, 2003 10:41 AM
I have used the liquid mask before and I just use about a 3/0 paintbrush to apply it. It works really well but you do have to have a steady hand to apply it. Or you can slop it on and go back and trim with a sharp knife which of course you have to have a real steady hand or you slice your canopy. I generally try to be real careful applying with the paint brush.

I will get a heavy load on the brush and, gently at first because it's a big drop on the end, slowly "paint" it along the frames. The raised frames on most canopies will keep it from getting on the frame itself and you can "push" it into the corners with the fine brush after most of the mask is layed on. It's actually pretty easy with just a liitle practice. If you mess up too bad, most are water soluable so rise it off before it cures and start over. It peels right off after it's cured, but if you lay it on too thin it can be hard to remove. I get mine thin right next to the frame but after I get one section outlined I'll load up the center pretty good and get it heavy close to the frame. That makes removing it easier. I will pull up the center, work to one frame and then try to pull along the frame to get a better seperation. You can wait quite a while and still get a clean break if your paint isn't too thick so it gives you a couple days or so for weathering before you have to worry about removing it.
I hope this helps if you decide to keep using it!

Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 13, 2003 11:13 AM
Do a little bit at a time. I'm not sure about you, but I don't often get extended time to sit at the bench. 10 or 15 minutes would be a good session for me. (Every couple of weeks or so I find an afternoon to sit down.) I too have things that I struggle with (canopies, decals, detail painting, etc) and I've found that the best thing to do is very small bits at a time. I'll sit down and set a goal to mask off ONE section of a canopy. I take my time and after it's done I set it aside. Next day, I do the same thing. Eventually the whole thing is done and I can paint. I do a MUCH better job this way and I don't tend to 'rush' through the important prep. stuff.

Works for me! (although I don't really have any evidence to show for it...)

Murray
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Medina, Ohio
Posted by wayne baker on Friday, June 13, 2003 11:16 AM
I've used MicroMask for years, applying it just like Eric. I like it a lot better than trying to trim tape or something to fir inside the frames.

 I may get so drunk, I have to crawl home. But dammit, I'll crawl like a Marine.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 13, 2003 10:23 PM
I also use liquid mask. Only real difficulty I've seen is if the model canopy has an uneven surface, or texture to it. Almost a grain, really. Some of the "cheaper" manufacturers produce clear parts that aren't exactly "smooth." Watch out for them... Other than that, I've had no problems using the same application techniques as above.

demono69
  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by gbarnes on Friday, June 13, 2003 11:27 PM
The most consistently reliable method for me has been:
1- Dip or paint the canopy with Future Acrylic Floor Polish after trimming and polishing edges.
2- Mask with the Blue 3M low tack painter's tape, using smaller pieces to cover everything. Always use a freshly cut edge. The edges on the roll can get banged up or bent, so use a straight-edge and a sharp knife to cut pieces.
3- After masking, but before spraying the color, spray Future on the masked canopy. This will seal the edges, and any leakage will be Future, same as the canopy. After the edges are sealed, let the Future dry overnight (or at least a good while) and your paint can't run under loose edges. Works for hard edges on camoflage (never can spell that word, too lazy to look up) also, keeping paint from running under mask.
4- After decaling, sealing, weathering, and final clear coat of your choice, the mask comes off easily.

I have never had much luck with liquid masks, feeling a lack of control for the sharp edges. I used to hate masking, but a lot of that was that I worked so hard, then had to clean up the plastic after painting. Now, it comes off clean, and the shiny canopy makes it all worth while. The blue tape can also stay on longer than some other kinds without leaving residue, so modeling when I can find the time doesn't leave such a sticky mess.

PS:This is my first post, so I thought I would add an image of a favorite kit from my collection.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Poway, Ca.
Posted by mostlyjets on Saturday, June 14, 2003 12:11 AM
I have never been good at complex canopy frames and used to mask and paint only one or two frames, then remask and paint another few frames until done. More recently, I used Elmers glue brushed onto the rear cockpit windows of my 1/72 F-6F5 Hellcat. It pulled up easily after painting. I will try this on framed canopies next.
All out of Snakes and Nape, switching to guns...
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Third rock from the sun.
Posted by Woody on Saturday, June 21, 2003 9:29 PM
QUOTE: [i]
PS:This is my first post, so I thought I would add an image of a favorite kit from my collection.

You have a real beauty there! I have always wanted to add one of those to my collection. Are you a collector?

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones
  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by gbarnes on Sunday, June 22, 2003 7:13 AM
Hi Woody,
I enjoy everything about plastic, especially planes, but also cars, monsters, ships, dinosaurs, etc. I have built a few hundred kits and have collected a couple of thousand.

Here's my last built model, an Accurate Miniatures B-25 gunship:


Here are my favorite collectibles:


Here's some of my unbuilt kits:

I had looked for a Rapier for about 10 years before finally finding this one, which is really mint in the box. Since I had never actually seen one before this one, I expected to settle for a less than perfect one, but got really lucky at a great price. I guess perseverance pays off, sometimes even on eBay!

**Thanks to RonUSMC for hosting these pictures!
http://rongeorge.com/modules/Gallery/workshops

Gerald
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Third rock from the sun.
Posted by Woody on Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:54 AM
You are living in model heaven! I have an insane amount of kits also but they are not displayed as nicely as yours. Still drooling over that Rapier and the Vertijet! You should spend some time over at <http://www.scalehobby.com/forum/index.php> They are just starting out but allow trading. My main interest is in experimental fighters so you can see why your post is so exciting to me. You don't happen to be a KCCer do you?

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 22, 2003 10:47 AM
I hate masking too!! When I don't use Eduard masks here's what i do: I build the mask with paper, so i can try it many times and adjust it after each try. When it fits well i attack it on a bi-adesive paper and cut around it, then use the bi-adesive as mask. It works very well
Just my 2 cents
Giulio
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Lafayette, LA
Posted by Melgyver on Sunday, June 22, 2003 2:01 PM
Nice B-25! Hey! All those unbuilt kits looks familiar! I wonder if someone would come out with "wallpaper" that looked like model kits stacked from floor to ceiling if it would sell! Slip in all those rare old kits to drool over!

Clear Left!

Mel

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Seattle, WA
Posted by RonUSMC on Sunday, June 22, 2003 3:37 PM
There is only one thing I have to say about Canopies and masking.

Parafilm M

I have absolutely no fear of masking any canopy any time because I use Parafilm. Its amazing.


This is a 1.48 Little Bird... it is VERY small, but the canopy comes out like a champ because of Parafilm.
http://finescalegallery.com Active Kits: 1/48 AM Avenger 1/35 Sd.Kfz 251 Ausf C
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 22, 2003 9:04 PM
Hey have you tried bare metal foil woork like a charm. By the way thats one hell of a model line up you got there NSclcctl. Hey gbarnes you have to many models howabout sharing some.

Derrekjm@aol.com 8D
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, June 23, 2003 11:48 AM
The Parafilm M I've got.....And I have the same tape for 2 years! I dont like it. The reason why? If it screwed up... Then you have do it ALL OVER! I had that before..More than once! Black Eye [B)] Especially that damned Luftwaffe! :(
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by nsclcctl on Monday, June 23, 2003 4:37 PM
pardon my stupidity. Put parafilm on the canopy, stretch, then cut around the parts to be painted? What stops the parafilm from pulling up as you are cutting with an exacto? I am confused. Same thing with liquid mask. Glob it on the whole canopy then peel off only the area to be painted, the ribs of the canopy. People keep saying things but a etailed explanation would help. Thanks guys. Still irritated with canopies. What are the Eduoard canopy molds?
  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by gbarnes on Thursday, June 26, 2003 8:19 PM
Hi Woody,
I was a KCCer, but let my subscription lapse last year. I have KCC's all the way back to the beginning (or almost the beginning, can't remember which, and too much junk too dig them quickly enough to find out).

Build a model for the fun of it!
Gerald
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Third rock from the sun.
Posted by Woody on Friday, June 27, 2003 1:57 AM
I hope you can resubscribe. I have a real soft spot for KCC and would hate to see John quit. I just came back after a long lapse from KCC and hated to see the toll ebay is taking on that wonderful digest. I also like ebay, what can I say. Best regards Woody

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA, GA
Posted by erush on Friday, June 27, 2003 8:25 AM
nsclcctl, Using the liquid mask I will "paint" it over the clear canopy and leave the frame exposed. I use a 3/0 paintbrush but get a large drop on it and carefully go along the frame edge first. The edge of the frame will stop the mask unless you slip and if you do you can wipe it right off with a damp paper towel, etc. or go back and trim with a knife. After I outine a pane I'll fill in the middle with a larger brush with a thick coat and push it close to the frame but not all the way. That gives you a good thick layer for easy removal after painting and a fine parting line.

I haven't used the parafilm yet, but I understand that it's sticks well enough to not curl or slide back when you trim it. I jusr get nervous when I place a sharp object near my canopies! Big Smile [:D]

Try a liquid mask, it really is easy and does a great job or the parafilm if you have a steady hand.

Hope that helps some.

Eric
Hi, I'm Eric and I'm a Modelholic too. I think I have PE poisioning.     "Friendly fire...isn't"
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 27, 2003 2:24 PM
I cut some masking tape in thin strips arounth 16th of an inch in width and outline my framework with it,thin tape handles compound curves very well.Next I put some Elmers glue in a clear 35mm film container,add a drop of food coloring so you can see it when it dries and a drop of dishwashing detergent to brak the glue apart,thin with a few drops of water and paint it on the canopy where you want the clear parts covered.When dry spray away the color of your choice,when dry just pull on a corner of the tape and it breaks off the dried Elmers.Been using this method for 30 years and it never failed me.Last batch I mixed up was about 3 years ago,and its still going strong,I used some today.Good Luck.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: plopped down in front of this computer.
Posted by eagle334 on Friday, June 27, 2003 4:13 PM
Ok, Heres a detailed explanation of how to use Parafilm or at least how I use it. The film can't be stretched on the canopy. You must first stretch until you get it to a uniform translucent look then set it down for a couple of seconds to give it chance to "recover" some. At this point you can apply it to the canopy and just the heat in your fingers is enough to get it to stick well. There seems to one side that sticks better than the other, so if you have a problem, just flip it over. Trimming it can be tricky. Use a NEW #11 blade or one you know you haven't is really good shape and very carefully cut the edge. I find just "rolling" the blade across it is enough to cut it. Pay close attention to the corners or whereever angles come together to make sure you have a complete cut. Slowly remove what needs to come off , watching to make sure you haven't missed a corner and its starting to lift the mask, press the edges down with your finger again and you're pretty much set.

When you paint, I recommend not hand painting, use an airbrush and always spray at a right angle to the film so that the edge doesn't lift with the air pressure from the brush.

Now the most important thing, and I know this from experience, Don't leave it on for 3 years!!! It don't like to come off.

If you have any questions, e-mail me and be happy to help ya out.
Wayners Go Eagles! 334th Fighter Squadron Me and my F-4E <script language="javascript" src="http://www.airfighters.com/phgid_183.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Cameron, Texas
Posted by Texgunner on Saturday, June 28, 2003 5:13 PM
Hey plane captain, your method sounds interesting but I have a question: When you say that you outline the canopy framework with the masking tape strips, you mean that you've taped around the frames-leaving the framework exposed? If so, doesn't your Elmer's mixture also cover the frames when you spray it on? If the tape strips were on top of the framework, then they could be pulled off after the Elmers dries, leaving the exposed frames. oooh, I'm so confused; please excuse my stoopidity...Gary


"All you mugs need to get busy building, and post pics!"

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 9, 2003 9:28 AM
Holy Crap! My wife gripes at me because I have 34 unstarted kits! I nominate Gerald as the king of the world.

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbarnes

Hi Woody,
I enjoy everything about plastic, especially planes, but also cars, monsters, ships, dinosaurs, etc. I have built a few hundred kits and have collected a couple of thousand.

Here's my last built model, an Accurate Miniatures B-25 gunship:


Here are my favorite collectibles:


Here's some of my unbuilt kits:

I had looked for a Rapier for about 10 years before finally finding this one, which is really mint in the box. Since I had never actually seen one before this one, I expected to settle for a less than perfect one, but got really lucky at a great price. I guess perseverance pays off, sometimes even on eBay!

**Thanks to RonUSMC for hosting these pictures!
http://rongeorge.com/modules/Gallery/workshops

Gerald
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, July 9, 2003 9:33 AM
Ron,

How do you keep the film from rolling up when you trim? I've tried brand new blades, even got hold of some scalpels, but the film keep rolling on me.


QUOTE: Originally posted by RonUSMC

There is only one thing I have to say about Canopies and masking.

Parafilm M

I have absolutely no fear of masking any canopy any time because I use Parafilm. Its amazing.


This is a 1.48 Little Bird... it is VERY small, but the canopy comes out like a champ because of Parafilm.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by DocTG on Wednesday, July 9, 2003 1:00 PM
NSCLCCTL,

I can't find where anyone answered your question about Eduards, which manufactures canopy masks for specific models and specific scales. I have never tried them, but I am tempted to since I, too, have unending headaches with canopies (what's most frustrating about them is that they generally come last--or nearly so--in the building process. If you've done a fantastic job with the rest of the model only to screw up the canaopy, the effect can be highly frustrating. I have a Tamiya 1/48 HE219 Uhu to prove it. I used Verlinden aftermarket photoetched parts, resin engine detail, after market decals, and a brilliant airbrush job, and the whole thing looked great. Then I tried to mask and paint the canopies, only to screw them up several times. A real heart-breaker.) When I try Eduards, I'll let you know how it works.
Doc
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Wednesday, July 9, 2003 1:09 PM
I use the little strips of masking tape technique also. But sometimes I use this variation on certain types of canopies. Mask and expose only the horizontal frames, paint, remove mask, and then mask and expose only the vertiical frames, paint. It saves al lot time trying fit the little squares just right. You do have to make sure the first coat of paint is cured completey otherwise the second masking may lift the first coat.
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