Advice please for a builder trying to get serious!

So ve are havink der fun und games mit der blakenwolf!!
Like him I also undercoat mit, sorry, with black.....and blue, yellow, red, white and grey especially when Im painting a natural metal aeroplane or using gold (yellow) copper (red) or if I'm trying something out. Sometimes it works sometimes it dont.
TTFN Dai

QUOTE: Originally posted by Keyworth Hmmmmmm...............Black-wolf, Fade to black, black primer...a pattern develops! The game is afoot, Watson! :) Happy 4th Blackwolf :) - Ed

Ah!!! A fellow Sherlockian? (Or whatever we're called...) Is it mere coincidence that reference to the color black shows up quite often? Possibly, but these are deep, deep waters indeed...

Anyhoo, happy 4th to you, Key, and to all in the US!!


Fade to Black...

One tip that hasn't been mentioned as yet is to WASH the model. On taking the kit out of the box I always wash the whole thing in warm water with a drop or two of mild detergent to get rid of the release agent and then after building and before painting to get rid of my grotty finger oils which can mar a paint job. Let the model drip dry dont rub it or you will create a static charge and attract dust which will cause bad language and temper tantrums.
For my final smoothing of filled joins, sinks and other things I use make up quality emery boards I stole from my wife. If I can mention them the Amway ones are far superion to the rest but cost a bit more.
TTFN Dai

Amen, 72cuda, amen! :)

well all these people have excellent ideas but I hate to say it but you need to try all of them to see what is best for you,
for sanding I start with 320 and work up to 1500 or higher if I'm going to have bare metal, and I'm a masicus for pain I completely redo the panel lines by rescribing them,
paints I use both types for interiors I use Testor Enamal and then I use Polly Scale for exterior or Testor acrylics, unless it's bare metal then it's SNJ, but you have the option of all of the brands & types for your tastes, and the most important is have fun while you do it, and you are your worst critic so it's your opinion that'll count if you feel the job is top knotch then it is, this hobby is your enjoyment and nobody elses, and for advise you got the best resorces right here and in the mag, like I said you need to have fun here and don't pressure yourself to exceed you expectations, time here is your friend, the more you do the better you get and then you'll be in the Fine Scale Gallery with a 1st place metal in the international IPMS's contest, then brag about it--- like I said have fun!!!!!! and don't worry about the other guy(he's in the same boat as you[ matter of fact I'm the same boat too)

Bernse, you've gotten some good advice from the other folks. I'll add my two cents worth. Instead of Squadron Green stuff or other modelling putties, try plain old red Bondo. It adheres to plastic without scoring or distortion,, dries thoroughly in a much shorter time period, and sands easily and quickly. Give it a try. You can pick it up at most automotive centers in a tube. Wal-mart carries it as well. - Ed

Hmmmmmm...............Black-wolf, Fade to black, black primer...a pattern develops! The game is afoot, Watson! :) Happy 4th Blackwolf :) - Ed

Well, I used to work in two different joints with bars, helped out some at each and came up with a couple of my own drinks, so it's a natural!!

Funny thing is, I don't drink...


Fade to Black...

if i had to guess, i think he's making cocktails! :-)

Blackwolf

I just gotta know.
Whyfor did you mix acrylics with ginger ale?

If I use putty, I apply it using a wooden Q-tip that I've sanded down flat on one side. I just grab some putty out of the tube with this tool and go to town. (I've made several of these little jobs, all shaped differently.)

I don't worry too much about surrounding detail because 1) I usually build kits that have engraved lines which are much easier to restore than raised lines, and 2) I generally don't use much putty. It's a matter of controlling the application of the stuff onto the model. With practice and experience, you'll find that you use less and less with each successive project.

Anyhoo, nowadays I mostly use Mr.Surfacer made by Gunze Sangyo. This stuff is great for most seams and it's a liquid that can be applied much more precisely than putty. There's 500 (thick) and 1000 (thin). I use 500 almost exclusively and apply it with a brush in thin coats, building it up as needed.

When sanding nowadays, I use sanding sticks almost exclusively. Too bad, too, 'cuz I have more sandpaper than has been made!! I love sanding sticks, you can get 'em at drug stores, supermarkets, dollar stores, beauty shops; you name it! And they're CHEAP! (Depending where you get them, of course...) You can also get them through hobby retailers, but they'll be much more expensive.

Here's a tip for the sanding sticks. Even though it's co$tly, get yourself one of Squadron's tri-grit sticks. These are the ones with one side divided into two sanding/finishing grits and the other side being a smooth polisher/buffer.

Now, find some of the tri-grits at various stores that have grits which exactly match those of the Squadron stick. Some of the sticks you find in drug stores and such are a bit more coarse than the Squadron deal. These are useful as well, but you want the same grit as on the Squadron stick for finishing before painting. That's what I use exclusively and I get stellar results. Sandpaper is almost a thing of the past for me. However, experiment with different types of sanding materials, what works for me may not work for you.

Going back to Mr.Surfacer, some folks have used the 1000 as an overall primer, but I prefer to use actual paint. I dunno who carries it online, I get mine locally or at shows.

Speaking of primers, I use whatever flat black I have laying around the bench. I paint everything black before I apply color; but then, I'm weird. And speaking of paint...

Testors still makes enamels, and they also make acrylics. The health issue is a bunch of BS because neither of them are good for you, matter of fact acrylics are just as bad for you as enamels. (Especially if mixed with ginger ale! )

It's just that the smell of acrylic fumes seem to be a bit less noxious to some. I use enamels because they've never let me down of their own accord in any way. I just find acrylics to be a pain in the you know what. (Water clean up my...)

My absolute fave line of paint is the Floquil/Aeromaster enamel line, but I probably shouldn't even mention those, (Too late!) they're out of production. If you're inclined to use enamels and see these paints anywhere, grab 'em! Great stuff!! Speaking of Floquil, I also use their Railroad lacquers now and again.

Okay, backtracking again. Going back to sanding and losing detail. If you do build a kit with raised lines, you can replace them with stretched sprue, as I believe was mentioned already. It ain't the easiest thing to do. My Dad once built a TBD Devastator which has the ribbed wings. He lost a buncha detail sanding the leading edges and replaced it all with sprue. Just goes to prove that he was a helluvalot more nutzo than I am!!!

If you build a kit with engraved lines and need to restore detail, there are many scribers available out there for purchase. You can also use certain dental picks and a real simple device; a sharp pin held in a pin-vise. I'm lucky in that my Dad brought home alotta "out of spec" stuff from work, including carbide scribers!!! (YAY!) When I use an actual scriber, invariably, that's what I use. But my absolute fave tool for engraving lines is a triangular jeweler's file or needle file. Take a look at my pathetically meager website for an article on scribing lines with these little jobs.

Try as much as you can, be it different paints, techniques or whatever. Decide what's right for you. Take it one step at a time, as well. Whatever you're putting out now, you WILL get better. But it takes time, practice and alotta really bad screw-ups!!!


Fade to Black...

HEY,
I am certainly no expert. For painting the cockpit i use a toothpick to paint details over the base color. Testors makes both an acrylic and an enamel. I prefer acrylic over enamel because it is easier to clean and it dries slower so it is easier to work with. Sorry im no help.

Randy

Hi Bernse The putty i use is Squadron green putty and i apply it with the point of an old scalpel. only use just slightly more than enough to fill the gap, the more you put on the more work you are making for yourself. also when sanding the last grade you should use is 1500 any rougher and the marks will show through the paint. If i have to replace raised lines i simply just scribe them on, this may sound strange but the plastic on either side of the scribed line is raised and if you use a very fine pointed blade it will look like a raised line (practise on a scrap kit or inside a wing piece first)then give it a VERY light rub with 1500 grit to take the rough edge off. Always prime for the reasons mentioned previously...hope this helps.....Greg

Thanks all! I really, really appreciate the responses.

Ahoy bernse,

Don't use your filler directly from the tube! Squirt an amount you can use in a reasonably short time onto a suitable surface (I use a yogurt lid) and then, using a tool of some sort, transfer only the amount of filler you need to your seam. I have used a flat toothpick with a thin sanded edge, the end of an xacto blade, and a palette knife to apply putty. The putty skins over quickly, so don't squirt out more than you can apply in three or four minutes. Use only enough to fill the seam. Less putty =less sanding!

You've asked all the right questions. Keep searching this forum as well as other modeling forums and you'll pick up a lot of information.

Good luck,
Tom

i squirt a bit on the paper that covers my work table. or scrap paper, cardboard, etc. plastic yogurt or margarine container lids work very well too. once the putty dries on them you can just flex them and it will fall off.

then i use a toothpick, metal tool, narrow strip of cardboard - whatever seems to fit best to spread it on the seam and pack it in.

i have not had much trouble w/ the stuff drying up on me as i work, but i only squirt out a bit at a time and work along. if it hardens or i run out, i suirt a bit more out onto whatever i use as a pallette.

definitely try to find or make some kind of narrow tool to apply it with.
it will make it much more precise.
and that means less sanding and less detail damage.
(if you try the nail polish remover trick, you may be able to skip sanding entirely)

experiment and find the tool that works best for you. Tamiya (and other companies) make little putty knives. if they have flea markets around where you are, someone may be selling tools that are very similar for only a few dollars. these types of places are also good for cheap clamps and medical type tools (clamps, forceps, hemostats, tweezers)

ed.

Thanks for all the advice so far! I'll have to try to tape trick with the putty! I'm definetly been doing that wrong.. I goop it on and it covers about 1/4" on each side.

One more question though: How do you apply the putty so well to such a thin seam? The tube I use is about a toothpaste tube (signal putty I think? I'm at work now so I can't see it) and if I squirt it out its about a 1/4-1/3" wide. Do you put it on something and apply it with a small tool or something? If so, how do you do it so fast without it drying on you?

bernse,
try putting masking tape down on bot sides of where you are filling as close to the crack/seam as possible.
this should restrict the area that the putty covers.
(any stray putty ends up on the back of the tape and will be discarded when you peel it up)
because you really only want to fill the seam itself.

and (i think) Rob means you can replace / repair damaged raised detail w/ the stretched sprue. you can also use it to fill gaps, once you get better at stretching it to the right diameter. i am good at making very fine pieces (for antennas), but not much experience w/ larger diameters. but try it. i was surprised how easy it was.

ed.

bernse,
sprue is indeed what hold the parts when you heat ist above a moderate flame till it gets soft and then pull it then you will get stretched sprue with practice you can make any diameter you need.

rob

Thanks for all the advice! I think my weak spot is going to be my filling/sanding.

Are you folks really carefull to only get putting in the crack/seam you are filling? If so, how? When I fill, it's probably a good 1/4" on either side of the seam, and hence almost always goes over some seams... so when I sand, the seam is gone.
robvandodewaard said to repair it (the lines) with fine stretched sprue.
What do you mean by that? Sprue=what hold the pieces, right?

Bernse,
it looks like Elfkin & Rob have covered most the ground. but i will throw in my 2 cents as well.
1a) when sanding seams, i try to protect the adjacent raised detail by surrounding the seam w/ plain old (thick & cheap) masking tape. this helps me focus on the seam and the tape prevents me from sanding too far off the mark. when i do sand the tape accidentally, the fraying warns me before any damage is done. you can also put the tape down before applying putty which should help it from spreading into areas you don't want it to be. if you end up w/ a ridge along the tape line, just move the tape back a fraction before sanding. you will still lose a bit of detail, but this should help to control the damage.

1b) another technique i have read online, but not tried is using nail polish remover to level the putty. just as it is starting to dry.
work in a well ventilated area !!!

there is an entire section on filling at
www.aircraftresourcecenter.com
from the top menu choose "Tools 'n' Tips"
then choose "Filling"
the nail polish remover technique i am referring to is called "Filling Without Sanding".

2) i am taking a pass on this. my sanding is not good enough yet to recommend anything! [:0]

3) i prime w/ Floquil (grey) primer thinned w/ laquer thinner.
it is a model railroad paint, but works niceely on winged models as well. i recommend priming for the same reasons as the other guys. surface prep for final coat and revealing problems before the final coat.

4) for cockpit detail i use a combination of techniques. but mostly dry brushing and silver pencil. and i do a lot better w/ the silver pencil! i have also used a 'razor point' black felt tip pen with some good results. for a good look at drybrushing, you can go to the article on the same "Tools 'n' Tips" page. that guy covers it w/ more detail & skill than i ever could!

5 & 6) i use mostly Tamiya acylics thinned w/ Tamiya thinner. i have also used Model Master Acryl paints with good results. but my best friend has no luck w/ them at all (adhesion problems). so you will have to try and see what works best for you. i am one of those people who can never tell if the paint is the same consistencey 'as milk'. but i know what ratios work w/ the pressure i use and the airbrush and nozzle combos. most of that is so dependent on the various components that some one else's numbers might only add to the frustration when they don't work for you. but i will tell you mine anyway. for tamiya paints, i thin 50/50 (w/ tamiya thinner) and spray at 20 pounds, using the (mostly) the tan nozzle on my Aztek airbrush. i do the 50/50 taking the paint (or thinner) from their jars w/ a straw w/ a finger over one end. my 'equal measures' are approximate.

experiment on scrap styrene when you get in the ballpark.
i 'warm up' on brown paper bags to make sure the airbrush is not spitting and the paint is coming out evenly.

good luck!

Dear Bernse,
I'll try to answer some of your questions.

1) lost raised details . if you want to keep the details raised you can repair it with fine stretched sprue or you can repalce the raised details with scribed details
2)when I start sanding i'll use 320 grid an d when I finish I'll use 1500 grid and sometimes depending on the kind of finish(bare metal) it needs to be polished to eliminate any scratches.Mind you always use waterproof sandpaper.

3) I always prime the surface. This has two purposes one the paint wil adhere better to the surface and two any unseen blemishes will pop up so it can be fixed befoer the fial coat of paint. Since I use acrylic paint I use a color from the tamiya range ,mostly light grey

4)cockpit detail can be painted with a smal brush. I use this as well in combination with a magnfying lamp or in case the instrument panel has raised details you can also try drybrushing it or use a pastel pencil in the appropiate color
5) Paint is a matter of personal preference. until five years ago I only used enamels but I switched completely to acrylics and I must say I feel much better about it after airbrushing ther are a lot less fumes wich bother my health (the very reason that I make the switch)mind you Always use the spraymask no matter what paint used.When painting with acrylics you can't use the same thinner as with acrylics when starting withacrylics I recommend that you use the thinner from the paint range you use and from ther start to experiment with other thinners like denatured alcohol or windshieldwhiper fluid but you must be careful with this because every brand of acrylic paint responds differently to this. I also use the Tamiya paints and although the paint range is rather limited I think it is good paint I also use some colors from testord but over here in The Netherlands is it very hard to get by.At this moment I am experimenting with paint from the lifecolor range(an Italian brand) and I must I like what see. They have a complete range of camouflage colors almost for every nation.

I hope that this answered some of you"re questions if you need to know more you can always ask

greetings

rob

Hi Bernse...
While I am definitely not an expert, I'll try to help you out with some answers to your questions:
1. Of course, one good source is this forum. Also the Finescale books are great places to start...I believe you can order them on-line.
2.I was using any grit to finish...then got some advice from a member of the club I belong to. Use 400 grit, the finish with 600 grit. Sometimes a plastic polish (along the lines of Novus) will help smooth some of the rough spots. Make sure to use wet...just dip the surface into some water.
3. Definitely use a primer...I use light grey, and very lightly cover seams and joints. It is kind of relevatory that after all that sanding, you spray a primer, and you then see all these rough spots/putty pits and cracks, you get the idea.
4. Testor's and Tamiya both make an acrylic. Both have branded thinners for the enamel and acrylic brand. Acrylic thinners will not work on enamels, and enamel thinner will not work on acrylic. I used to work entirely in enamels....now I use acrylics about 50%-80% of my painting. The big plus is that with acrylics one can clean the airbrush with Windex or denatured alchohol (sp?), and brushes clean up with soap and water. Whenever I can I try to stay with the acrylics
5. As for airbrushing, the consistency of the paint should be like milk. It is somewhat trial and error. I use several pieces of cardboard to test consistency and color, before I use a color on a model. I also "experiment" by shooting some color on scrap styrene or styrene card. You can certainly use an eyedropper, Testors makes some droppers, you can also get "hi-tech" with the Precision-mix system. Also on this web-site under "Scale Modeling Guides" is an article from several issues back, "The ABCs of airbrushing"...excellent source for the beginner.
DERRRR...forgot about the painting the cockpit...I usually spray the base color and pick out the detail with an 000 or 00 pointed brush, then dry brush details. Hope this helps a little bit!