P 61 Black Widow

murph

Member since
January 2003
From: West of the rock and east of the hard place!

Posted by murph on Sunday, September 28, 2003 7:06 AM

I've built this kit and tried both finishes. The first one I did was the gloss black, the second the olive over grey with the invasion stripes. To tell the truth, I prefer the latter colour scheme. A little more difficult to paint but I think the contrast is interesting.

That's my $0.02

Retired and living the dream!

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Friday, September 26, 2003 5:55 PM

well being in the air force ( and being a crew chief ) i have found that in most cases in the field we use what paint we can find that is the closest to what the plane came with, i know in WWII that most fighter units did the same, the crew chiefs probably covered the areas with whatever black paint they could find if the area of stripped paint wasnt too large . If you look at modern navy aircraft you see the affect of spot painting over small areas that need corrosion covering from paint. Rigolosi

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TEISE

Member since
January 2003

Posted by TEISE on Friday, September 26, 2003 2:25 PM

I built the Monogram P61 in the 1970's and if I remember correctly the paint instruction was all gloss black then go back over all top surfaces with flat or grimy flat black.I remember I didn't glue my canopies on so you could look in there and see all that great(for that time)detail. I have seen the Monogram reissue at Michaels recently.Might build it again...30 yrs later.
Teise

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Woody

Member since
December 2002
From: Third rock from the sun.

Posted by Woody on Friday, September 26, 2003 12:03 AM

Hey guys I intend to build a P-61B in the markings of Monnie from the 5th AF. I was going over my decal sheet and it calls for gloss black for these birds. I have a question about interior color. Weren't all these planes green zinc chromate in their cockpits?

" I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast; for I intend to go in harm's way." --John Paul Jones

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didfaI

Member since
December 2002
From: Vallejo, CA

Posted by didfaI on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 7:24 PM

Sent my e-mail and thanks for the finish info. Jump in, the waters fine.

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Lufbery

Member since
December 2002
From: Harrisburg, PA

Posted by Lufbery on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 6:57 PM

Okay folks, here's the picture of the Smithsonian's P-61. I took this photo at the Garber Restoration Facility in December of last year.

You'll notice my flash really illuminated the prop blades, landing gear, and the engine parked in front of the Widow, but the plane itself has hardly any glare on it from the flash. (The white spot on the radome is white paint). That plane's paint is very very flat!
.

.
Regards,

-Drew

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

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didfaI

Member since
December 2002
From: Vallejo, CA

Posted by didfaI on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 5:59 PM

Maybe a kit comparison feature along with the 'build' similar to the ones on P-38's and P-51's. If anybody's really interested we should e-mail them. I'll start first, just cover my SIX!

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echolmberg

Member since
February 2003
From: Green Bay, WI USA

Posted by echolmberg on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 4:21 PM

Dear FSM,
Could you guys please do a build up on the Black Widow either the Monogram or, perhaps better still, the new Amtech kit coming out soon? PUUHLEEASE!

We love this site and the publication.

Sincerely,

Everyone

PS. It would be something different from all the ME-109, FW-190, and P-51 articles (of which we enjoy immensely as well!) :) Think of how cool a huge picture of the Black Widow would look on the cover!!!

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Ray Marotta

Member since
December 2002
From: Lyons Colorado, USA

Posted by Ray Marotta on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 3:17 PM

I think there was an article in FSM some years back on converting the Monogram
P-61 into an F-15 Reporter photo-recon aircraft. Looked real nice with a two place
tandem seating canopy instead of the stepped greenhouse and turret. NMF, too.
http://www.daveswarbirds.com/usplanes/aircraft/reporter.htm
Ray

]

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didfaI

Member since
December 2002
From: Vallejo, CA

Posted by didfaI on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 1:09 PM

Do you think FSM will take the hint or should we go formal?

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72cuda

Member since
July 2003
From: USA

Posted by 72cuda on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 1:00 PM

Hey guys;
here is another thought for the P-61 back in I guess late 44 or early 45 the Marines bought some P-61's but the Navy gave them their formal F1-N's numbers (or something like that) so the pilots could get fam training on the radar systems for the F7-F's night fighters but they where painted flat black the P-61 in the Smithsonians maybe a Marine A/C instead of the AAF's, so this would be a topic for the Mag to run too, think about it the Navy & AAF had their JSF in the 40's
have fun & relax
cuda

84 of 795 1/72 Aircraft Competed for Lackland's Airman Heritage Museum

Was a Hawg Jet Fixer, now I'm a FRED Fixer

'Cuda

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didfaI

Member since
December 2002
From: Vallejo, CA

Posted by didfaI on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 12:49 PM

OK, let's all get together and ask FSM for a 'build' feature to see how they do it.

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echolmberg

Member since
February 2003
From: Green Bay, WI USA

Posted by echolmberg on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 12:34 PM

Hi Everyone!

I tried this one technique on a Black Widow of mine. Mix some gloss and flat black to a 50/50 ratio. I airbrushed it on and it looks wonderful! I've done some of my Widow models in gloss black and also some using the 50/50 method (as well as the OD versions). With the 50/50 method the finish is flat enough to not have that "high gloss" look but at the same time it provides a great surface for the decals. I didn't have to put on so many overcoating layers of glosses and flats to get the sheen I wanted. Try it. You'll like it! :) Oh, it also takes a good weathering if you like to use chalks.

Eric

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didfaI

Member since
December 2002
From: Vallejo, CA

Posted by didfaI on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 11:15 AM

I think I'll use gloss black and finish with Dullcote. Will let you know how it comes out. My bulid dates are stretched out over the next 18 months. Since I've just returned to the hobby I've been buying kits and paints gathering material/info. Thanks to all for the info and the 'sticky finger' tips.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 11:10 AM

Weren´t there also olive drab/light grey versions? If I remember correctly that was one of the painting options on the monogram instructions..

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Lufbery

Member since
December 2002
From: Harrisburg, PA

Posted by Lufbery on Tuesday, September 2, 2003 10:35 AM

FWIW, the P-61 at the Smithsonian's Garber Restoration Facility is deep, dead, flat black. I don't know if that's just gloss paint that has deteriorated over the years or if it was painted that way. But the dang plane hardly reflected any light, including the flash from my camera! The museum docent (guide) who took us on the tour indicated that the flat paint was there on purpose. He said that when he was in the Navy they experimented with low visibility flat paint and the results were outstanding.

I see so many references to P-61s being painted in gloss black, but the only one I've ever seen (in one piece, anyway) had very very flat paint. What gives?

Regards,

-Drew

-Drew

Build what you like; like what you build.

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r13b20

Member since
April 2014

Posted by r13b20 on Monday, September 1, 2003 1:28 PM

Hey pixilater there's something funny looking about the drop tanks in that pic. Is it just me or is that photo re-touched?

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JGUIGNARD

Member since
March 2003
From: USA

Posted by JGUIGNARD on Monday, September 1, 2003 12:43 PM

If you don't feel like messing around with trying to get a good weathering job on the gloss black, early production Black Widows were painted Olive Drab/Neutral Gray.

Jim

Most of us are acquainted with at least one "know-it-all". He may be as close as the mirror. [}:)]

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 1, 2003 10:07 AM

QUOTE: High-G maneuvers would often times stress the airframe enough to shed paint in-flight.

There is a very visible reason for this, the top turret's teardrop shape. When the turret was rotated to either side the buffeting would cause the entire airframe to vibrate. The effects of this were most noticable on the booms. Some later AC were equipped with a domed turret a la B-29 and the buffeting effect was eliminated.

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 1, 2003 8:37 AM

Here's a pic that may help with the weathering. It is an extreme case, but it shows the areas most affected by the contributing factors that produced so much wear on these planes. Hope it helps !

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72cuda

Member since
July 2003
From: USA

Posted by 72cuda on Monday, September 1, 2003 5:54 AM

hey Bilbirk;
Also they even had Invasion Stripes on them for D-Day and after that will also make an interesting piece also the top turrets where mostly on the A versions, but used on the later B's & C's the reason they removed them is that they had problems & it's the same turret on the B-29's, so some people state that Boeing had the more important contract for the Sperry turret then Northrop, and some state that they where a problem child, anywho they still look great with or without the turret, Black or O.D. & Grey, with or with out stripes (I think they make people think differently cause most people think they where only used in the PTO)
and Blackwolf is just about a walking, talking aviation liberary of information loaded with great info keep up the great work Blackwolf
have fun & relax
cuda

84 of 795 1/72 Aircraft Competed for Lackland's Airman Heritage Museum

Was a Hawg Jet Fixer, now I'm a FRED Fixer

'Cuda

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r13b20

Member since
April 2014

Posted by r13b20 on Sunday, August 31, 2003 7:14 PM

The P-61 at the Airforce Museum at WPAFB has a semi-gloss black with a green anti glare section on the nose. On top, in front of the canopy. The spinners are green also. I have a poor picture if anyone is interested.

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didfaI

Member since
December 2002
From: Vallejo, CA

Posted by didfaI on Sunday, August 31, 2003 11:20 AM

You're a wealth of info and thanks for paint ideas. Still want to see something in FMS since this seems to be a popular kit Also looking for an A1E, 'Blue Room" in 1/ 48th. I'm collecting kits to build along with info the help in construction.
Again, thanks

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BlackWolf3945

Member since
December 2002
From: Pominville, NY

Posted by BlackWolf3945 on Sunday, August 31, 2003 12:15 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by didfaI

...since they were only used in the Pacific...

They were used in the ETO/MTO as well as the PTO. I'm a great lover of black-painted birds, but I really like the OD over gray on this one. That's just me, of course...

Also, if you feel like trying some paint chipping techniques, this is the bird to try them out on. The black didn't stick too well in general, the paint peeled off in sheets sometimes. And there were documented cases of P-61's coming back from missions with less paint on them than when they left. High-G maneuvers would often times stress the airframe enough to shed paint in-flight.

Another contributing factor to the war-torn look of these birds was the sealing tape used while shipping the aircraft overseas. Often times it would peel the paint off in fairly neat strips when it was removed. This didn't happen too much on the OD birds, though. But if you're building it black, you're wide open...

Fade to Black...

Steve O. Reno Check Out My Photo Sets on Flickr

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didfaI

Member since
December 2002
From: Vallejo, CA

Posted by didfaI on Saturday, August 30, 2003 10:38 PM

Thanks for the info on the paint and since they were only used in the Pacific a corrosive look might work. Does anyone know of an article in FSM that features this rare bird? Shy [8)]

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kayajeep

Member since
February 2003

Posted by kayajeep on Saturday, August 30, 2003 10:10 PM

Just got done with mine, same deal, Micheals - 40% off. I used gloss black and it looks really good. The canopy up front was alot of fun but everything else when ok. Good Luck.....

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Anonymous

Member since
November 2005

Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 9:56 PM

P-61s were painted gloss black not flat.

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mandrake

Member since
April 2003
From: Mexico

Posted by mandrake on Saturday, August 30, 2003 8:50 PM

you can do that, i dont see any problem with that, i would prime all the pieces and then paint them with gloss black so that i would be able to fade the paint a little bit but depends really on yourself and on how would you like your model to look like when is done, some fellow in this forum told me that the paint of the P-61 used to fade as the old Chrysler paint use to so depends on yourself, good luck and let us see the product when is done!

Regards
Mandrake

Thanks! My Best Regards Hector Reymundo

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didfaI

Member since
December 2002
From: Vallejo, CA

Posted by didfaI on Saturday, August 30, 2003 5:47 PM

I just bought that kit at Micheal's with a 40% coupon; $11.20.
Now I'm looking for kit building experiences, photos, refs, etc.
You can build three different types and instructions are detailed. Thinking of wshing parts and spraying with Dulcote since kit is black plastic. Any comments? Shy [8)]

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