Thunderbirds Lose One

csomervi,
Great shot. Do you know if they got any other footage from this angle?

hi all

im from israel, so i was shocked whan i first heard about the tunderbird's "Dimond Crash" in 1982

i have searched the web for some photos of the crash
no luck so far....

do you guys have any?
if you do, i can either post them of the forum or send them to me via E-MAIL

arie1959@zahav.net.il

thenks guys
love the forum!

Actually, when the Thunderbirds lost the whole formation in a practice accident, the team was doing the 'line abreast loop' . Each team member is side by side with his team mates and the only one not looking at a partner is the flight leader. You'll note that the Thunderbirds haven't done that formation since that crash.


Jamie

In 1981, my mom worked as a bartender in the Officer's Club at Langley AFB. The Thunderbirds commander went there occasionally when in town for a show, and found out I loved drawing airplanes etc. I drew his Talon and when I gave it to him, he shook my hand and gave me a photo with signatures from the pilots. I can't find that photo and somtimes wonder if they were the crew that crashed doing that formation in practice.

Dan

The story below explains the photograph. This photo was almost certainly taken from the Mountain Home AFB control tower due to the photo's elevation and the tower's proximity to the crash. I have placed the (spectacular) photo at...

http://ChuckSomerville.com/pics/0.8_Seconds_To_Impact.jpg

Here's the story:


Thunderbirds accident report released

Air Combat Command Public Affairs


LANGLEY AIR FORCE BASE, Va. (ACCNS) -- Pilot error caused a U.S. Air Force Thunderbirds F-16 aircraft to crash shortly after takeoff at an air show Sept. 14 at Mountain Home Air Force Base, Idaho. The pilot ejected just before the aircraft impacted the ground.

According to the accident investigation board report released today, the pilot misinterpreted the altitude required to complete the "Split S" maneuver. He made his calculation based on an incorrect mean-sea-level altitude of the airfield. The pilot incorrectly climbed to 1,670 feet above ground level instead of 2,500 feet before initiating the pull down to the
Split S maneuver.

When he realized something was wrong, the pilot put maximum back stick pressure and rolled slightly left to ensure the aircraft would impact away from the crowd should he have to eject. He ejected when the aircraft was 140 feet above ground - just eight-tenths of a second prior to impact. He sustained only minor injuries from the ejection. There was no other damage to military or civilian property.

The aircraft, valued at about $20.4 million, was destroyed.

Also, the board determined other factors substantially contributed to creating the opportunity for the error including the requirement for demonstration pilots to convert mean sea level and above ground level altitudes and performing a maneuver with a limited margin of error.

# 6

Does anyone know for sure which number was lost?

When I worked F-16's in the Air National Guard we just had one come out of Phased Inspections with a brand new engine and where running it at the trim pad, it was a full throttle when the compressor stalled and it blew me to my butt and I was about 50 ft away from the planes rt wing tip so if the engine had the compressor stall then there would be no way to re-start that engine( the plane I was working on the engine was a total write off it completely shelled out) and if the T-Bird had that same type of compressor stall the plane would never recover the engine was gone before the pilot ejected out,
Ugly Butt Well Hung; Hawgs
cuda

That is a great loss and the effects will be felt by every formation team in the world. I can only imagine what fuel this will give the critics that are against airshows. I know that the Snowbirds future is in question after the '05 season. I attended tha Abbotsford airshow in B.C. this summer, and wished that the Thunderbirds were there.

I did get to watch an extended video of the crash and there appeared to be a faint flicker from the engine nozzel. That would indicate the onset of a compressor stall. The engine stops producing power and needs a re-start. If this did happen, at that altitude, the A/C was doomed. There would be no chance for a re-lite. For those that do not know an A/C needs at least 2000ft to do a quick restart under about 200mph. It just takes time for the engine to spool up with out a secondary compressor stall.

Let's all do what we can to help keep those teams flying!!!!

qmiester is 100% correct. My knees are worn out from too many years of hard concrete aircraft parking ramps. The hearing in my right ear is so bad I may soon need a hearing aid. All from 26 years of screaming jet engines. As George Burns once said, "If I had known I was going to live so long, I would have taken better care of myself".

Might seem a "minor" injury now, but will guarantee that in about 25 to 30 years it will come back to haunt the person who has it. About 5 years ago I started to have really bad back pains. Doctor just told me it was approaching old age, so I finally let my wife talk me into going to the Chiropractor. She x-rayed me and a one of my lower disks had been collapsed to about 1/4 of origional thickness (which makes the nerve holes between the bones smaller, thereby inflicting pain). Her first question was "How many times have you been ejected out of an airplane?". I was forced to tell her I had never been ejected from an airplane, but had fallen off (or out of) several over the years. To you younger guys out there I would make this suggestion. If you are under thirty I know you think you are immortal. You ain't, believe me. At leat try to think about the consequences when you do something. Right now your body is writing checks which Mother Nature will cash when you get older.

Murphys 6th Rule of Combat:

The bursting radius of a hand grenade is always 2 feet farther than you can jump.

That T-Bird crash in the Talons was due to FOD jamming the flight leader's control and not allowing him to pull out of the dive; since the diamond formation flies with visuals on The Boss they all went in together............

BTW, FOD is what we call Foreign Object Debris, basically any foreign object floating around unsecured; tools, fasteners, etc.

That F-16 pilot will be a bit shorter but at least the life support people got him out!As the saying went in the Navy/Marine Corps-"The last to let you down"

Speculation, but is there a definitive answer?

Hey guy's;
The plane that does the Split S would be #6 and the news said the plane was trying to recover from the take off's emediate split s manuver when the plane began to have problems keeping in control, the investigators think the engine may have failed but who knows, as for the pilot he's generally grounded for about 6 months for spine compressability injuries from being ejected from the plane and thats called a minor injury, and he might be a little shorter then when he first flew the mission
Ugly Butt Deadly Effective Hawgs
cuda

Anyone know what the number was on the bird that went down. Thinking of doing it as a small tribute.

Thank goodness Capt. Stricklin was able to eject and that he was (relatively) unhurt, although I'm not sure what "minor" injories are.
I do understand that any ejection is a potential injury for the pilot - apparently very few pilots escape injury when they eject, regardless of the circumstances.
Better that getting dead, though.
The loss of the aircraft is lamentable, but in reality, the pilot is an irreplaceable, precious commodity.

I have to say I stand corrected, I researched the crashes of the Birds and they did crash before the 82 season, sorry for the confusion I Think this Iraqi dirt & heat has messed my brain up a little bit, my BAD sorry again
Ugly Butt Deadly Effective
cuda

The T Birds Diamond formation went down between seasons late 1980 to 1981 and for 2 years they didn't do anyshows, the 81 year was cancelled and 82 they anounced that they where going to fly the F-16's but didn't perform, April 83 they came back with the F-16's after droping the T-38's, I was stationed at Nellis AFB at that time with the 474 TFW and helped their maintenance people work on their new planes
Ugly Butt Deadly Effective Hawgs
cuda

They did lose an aircraft in Cleveland over Labor Day weekend in 1981. The show was over and the team was leaving for it's next show when Thunderbird #1 ingested a seagull on takeoff.

If I remember correctly, the pilot ejected but his chute malfunctioned.

I was work Talons at the time of the '82 crash at HAFB NM. We did the 6oo hr inspections for the T-Birds there, that crash was like a persnel loss to all of us there too. GLAD to see the pilot got out, a plane can be replaced a life can not. Bob

Just for the record:

January 18, 1982, saw the catastrophic "Diamond Crash" occur during a practice over Range 65, now referred to as "The Gathering of Eagles Range". The team was conducting a line abreast loop maneuver, when a malfunction of the commander/leader's aircraft proved to be fatal for the four pilots of the Diamond formation. Those involved were: Maj. Norm Lowry, commander/leader; Capt. Willie Mays, left wing; Capt. Pete Peterson, right wing; and Capt. Mark Melncon, slot. Due to this catastrophe and the transition to a new aircraft, the Thunderbirds did not perform any aerial demonstrations during the 1982 demonstration season.

They lost one in Cleveland to a bird strike. I think that was after '82.

Butz,
I'm pretty sure that's the crash you are talking about, where 5 went down at once, waiting for the leader to pull out of a dive. Tragic day.

Glad nobody was hurt!!
I was at the air show in Niagara Falls when the ol Blue Angels collided. This was when they were still flying there scooters. Unfortunately one pilot was lost.
Hey cuda,
The crash of 80 or 82, is that the show where the first 4 a/c or so followed the leader into the ground?? Or did that happen when they flew their Talons?
Flaps up, Mike

You scared me there for a second because I thought my sense of time was off, but that crash happened 1982. I saw them just before that at my first airshow and I knew it wasn't as early as 80.

Glad to see the Zipper got away from the doomed A/C well that'll be the first one they lost since the formation went in back in 1980, I seen them have bird strikes and land with damaged planes but never loose one, and I was staioned at Nellis when they converted over to the ole Lawn Darts, hate to see the beautiful plane going down but we live in a perfect world and make inperfect things, hope to see the CAPT up in the air soon,
Ugly Butt Deadly Effective Hawgs
cuda

Glad they were no casualties! You know I was supposed to go to the Ramstein airshow, that year when the Frecce ploughed into the crowd..!? But decided against goping the day before.

Hated to see that but thank God the pilot punched out safely....Good thing he didn't hesitate a half second more.

We can replace the F16...