Tamiya

QUOTE: Originally posted by hou_ge2000 I mean, injection molding is not rocket science. Any company can make great quality plastic kit as long as they are willing to spend the money and man power on the tooling, which will be reflected in the price of the kit.

Well I"ve designed a few injection molded parts and it IS in fact Rocket Science.

Hey all,

I just finished reading the last month of messages about the incredible quality of Tamiya kits. More on that issue in a moment.
I have been a modeler for over 40 years, entered many contests, won a few, even wrote a few kit reviews for magazines. I have seen the overall quality of kits increase right along with the price. The earliest 1/72 scale aircraft kits produced by Frog gave the modeler a wide variety of subject matter.... and flash, and mistakes, and poor fit, lack of detail, raised panel lines.... etc. However, it was expected and building a kit meant correcting the mistakes and putting in details. For those of you into buying some of the cheaper European 1/72 aircraft kits, Surprise!! Frog still lives on. Sure they may sport another company name, but that is the only change. Fortunately with magazines like Fine Scale Modeler...and others, we are forewarned about poor kits. As someone earlier said, "you get what you pay for". When Tri Master, DML, Hasegawa, Fine Molds and others got serious about detail and quality, I along with my fellow modelers rejoiced and drooled. Then detail sets, both photo etched and resin began to appear.... dreams come true.
I have always said that I would be happy building a kit with just a couple of pieces IF the manufacturer took the time on quality, detail and realism. Just think how much fun it would be to spend hours on finishing and detailing a kit without having 500 pcs to assemble first. My point here is there is nothing wrong with a kit that literally glues itself together.
My problem with the industry is that some of the more reputable model companies release.... or re-release inferior kits and fail to mention that they are old kits. Case and point, Tamiya realeased the Lancaster Grand Slam Bomber (propeller action series No. 4) in 1/48 scale in the recent past. Wow, not only included 4 motors for spinning the props, but prepainted clear parts.... prepainted and weighted tires!!! Really worth the near $100 price tag right? Well, in this case, WRONG! This was a re-release of an old Tamiya kit. No retooling. Raised panel lines and the same clunky details of the kit released decades before. Imagine, I opened the box checked out the beautiful paint job on the clear pieces.... wow, they even gave me unpainted pieces if I decided that I wanted to paint my own... right on! Now on to the rest of the kit... wow it's big, whoa, losts of raised rivets.... and... no way... I cant freaking believe it.... raised freaking panel lines! I put the kit away. I didnt want to think about the amount of cash I put out for this inferior kit. Anyone want to buy an opened 1/48 scale motorized Lancaster kit for the price I paid? I didnt think so. The store I bought it from didnt want it back either. Dont get me wrong.. this is a beautiful kit you can see the quality. I've built plenty of Tamiya kits and never complained. I just feel that I have been duped. Okay, I'll get off my soap box. But I gaurantee you that I wont buy another Tamiya kit that has all the buzzers and bells without first checking carefully on the internet, magazines and with fellow modelers.

Guys, I think you're overlooking something here, and thats the availability of the kits. Yes, I know that a lot of you can mail-order a kit. But there are probably a few people out there like me with no credit card and a distinct lack of GOOD places to buy a kit. All I have here is Wal Mart and Hobby Lobby. Our Hobby Lobby has a small section for plastic kits and that means a smaller selection. Wal Marts is even smaller. I haven't even seen some of the kits you're talking about! But the deciding factor is cost. I can't spend more than 20$ on a kit. And besides isn't it more fun to work on a kit that needs it? Some of the Monogram kits aren't that bad. And I really get a sense of accomplishment when everything comes out right!

Hey J-Hulk;
well I heard that a few years ago in the local IPMS meeting when someone brought up the reason Tamiya was staying in the just armour mode and not exploring into the avaition arenas but now they broke into it with a vengence and kicking butt and taken names later, I'm still waiting for them to start doing their 1/32 A/C's in 1/48 scale
Ugly Butt Well Hung: Hawgs
Cuda

both companies have their friends. I had the chance of buing some expensive hasegawa stuff over my self imposed 15$ limit and found that it was cool. Tamiya though is something i savour for birthday,xmas, and nameday.
thats wh i only got 4 tamiya vs 16 hasegawas.

Jim, some of their earler 1/35 armor was no picnic, either!

Cuda, I've never heard of any kind of deal like that, official or not, between Hasegawa and Tamiya. While Hasegawa still doesn't make any 1/35 armor themselves (they do distribute Dragon, though), Tamiya has been doing both armor and aircraft since waaaaaay back. Who knows what goes on behind closed doors though, eh?

I can remember the "good ol' days" of Tamiya 1/50th scale airplane models - particularly the Ki-100 and Ki-44 that between them required a whole tube of Green Stuff ! Their early 1/72nd airplane kits were just as agravating !

Jim

Hey J-Hulk;
Here's a question for you, I thought Tamiya was only doing Armour only and Hasegawa was to do Aircraft what made Tamiya cross over and start doing aircraft, I thought Tamiya & Hasegawa had a deal that they will not infringe on each others domain is there some bad blood between them or is Hasegawa going to start doing 1/35 armour too?, to balance each other again?
Ugly Butt Well Hung; Hawgs
cuda

You're right, Cuda. I would love to see a wider selection from my boys in Shizuoka, particularly some new kits of old faves like the B-17, but I reckon they're doing their best.
Still, in the history of plastic modeling, I'd have to say we're enjoying the best times ever, with the widest selection of kits and accessories ever, even with the continued disappearance of local hobby shops and the proliferation of die-cast and other completed models.
Plus, with wacky and unpredictable companies like Trumpeter and Panda out there, who knows what's coming next?
I'd say we have it pretty good!

Hey guys;
well not to break the greatness of Tamiya but, they have produced some dog's in their past, like the A-10A, F-15,F-16 Harrier, but compair them to the resent releases within the last 5 years it's like turning a light on in a dark room, yes I feel that Tamiya has great quailties in their kits but they need to do the same thing Revellogram did in the past is start hitting the planes that'll bring them Cash in, like the B-17's and such like Monograms runs if they do that them the price will drop but the quaility will be installed, Yes it is also nice to get a break from doing all the sculpturing on the less quaility kits but Tamiya doesn't pack the punch like Revellogram on selection in 1/48 scale until they do and that day the world will become perfect!!, but for now we got to live with the bottom dewellers(not to put down Revellogram they are seeing the light too have you seen their latest kits{yes I know they 're Hasegawa's or Dragon's but they are trying to break that old mold) and suck it up for now on the complaints until the perfect day comes
Ugly Butt Well Hung;Hawgs
Cuda

My girlfriend tells me that if she didn't work, she wouldn't know what to do woth herself. If I didn't work, I still wouldn't have enough time for 'hobbies'. I also wouldn't have enough money for my hobbies. Of course, i don't have enough money for my hobbies with a job.

J-Hulk,

I think we all love our models! :) I tell ya, the people I feel bad for are the ones who don't have any hobbies at all. Thank goodness for the Tamiyas, Monograms, and even the Matchboxes of world! LOL!

Have a great day!

Eric

Hi, Eric!
Yeah, looking back, I sure did overreact! I apologize for that. Don't know what got into me.
I didn't mean to launch any kind of attack personally at you, or at any single individual, for that matter.
It just seems that whenever Tamiya or Hasegawa is mentioned, the main criticisms I've heard across the board have been about price, of course, and that the kit's are "too good," or "too easy to build," thus somehow robbing us modelers of vital practice filling seams and making corrections to substandard kits. Having thought about it in more depth, well, if that's what an individual wants to do, then who am I to say anything against it? I realize now it is not a criticism against the better manufacturers. My initial reaction was exactly as I stated in my original post, but now I can see the other points of view more clearly. I just gotta watch that conclusion-jumping that I'm ocassionally prone to!
Thanks, fellas!

J-hulk,
I think you took my comments a bit to the extreme. Note that I said that I thoroughly enjoy my Tamiya kits! One of my favorite models in my collection is their F4U-1D. I think back to building that kit and I get the warm fuzzies all over. You said why don't I just buy and inferior car then or buy a run-down house and build it back up. Well I can't do that because I don't have the required skills nor the time to do so. But haven't we all admired the people who do possess such talents and skills? I wish I had my dad's woodworking ability but I don't. I have to go out and buy my own shelves and baby cradles like everyone else. This is all I'm saying: We can all build nice models. We can all sit back afterwards and with a high degree of satisfaction say "I did that." But don't you feel one more notch of contentment knowing that you could take something "inferior" and make it even better? Please don't slam me again! :) I will say it again. I LOVE the high quality kits like Tamiya and I will spend the extra money (ouch) to get a particular subject. However sometimes I enjoy getting the not-so-great kits because I know I'll be able to spruce it up just a teensy weensy bit more. I hope this clarifies things.

Eric

That's right, Merlin!
If I don't get away to a tropical paradise every two weeks or so, I get edgy!
Accusatory!
Paranoid!

Ahhh, but now I've returned to my usual mellow modeling demeanor...

All's well! Let's build!

Hulk

It's been a while since you've had a vacation hasn't it??
Maybe you're a little tense and need to get away for a bit.
How's Tinian this time of year?.

Both excellent points, fellas! You're absolutely right.
Sorry if I've been a little defensive lately!
Let's build and enjoy!

What's with the constant criticism of anyone who wants to exercise their modeling skills? No one criticized Tamiya, why would they? I recently made a comment on another similar post and was immediately accused of running down Tamiya, a company that I love by the way. Why can't we build what we want, the way we want and support the efforts of others?

I don't want anyone to take what I said the wrong way. I'll be one of the first to come to the defense of manufacturers such as Academy, Hasegawa, and Tamiya as head and shouloders above most of the other offerings out there. However, if I want to super detail a kit using aftermarket accy's, i would rather cut up a $15 model rather than risk destroying a $45 Tamiya kit of the same thing. There are exceptions, of course, such as doing a "presentation" piece or something that I want to be museum quality. In such cases, there is no substitute for great quality molds and fit. I just won't practice my skills on something of high value or quality. Revelogram fits the bill too nicely for that.

BTW, I have finished the 1/48 Tamiya Skyray, and it is a very impressive kit. Great detail, incredible fit, but the decals leave a little to be desired. It's too dificult to get some of their decals to curve the way they plan them. I just painted alot of them on by hand. Overall, a great buy.

demono69

Zoiks! That's too bad.
I bought the Rafale knowing well and good it was Italeri, for lack of any alternative.
An F-5 in 1/72? That's a good question! None come to mind.

We don't get them on shelves here but through mail order and ebay. You don't get to se the 'made in italy' until you get it. So an F-5E, F-4S and Rafale later, I had kits I never would have bought otherwise. Speaking of which, does any company make a good F-5 in 1/72? I've never found one.

That's true, but here in Japan they are clearly labeled as such, to avoid any "suckering." Not so in the States?

Just as an FYI, most of Tamiya's 1/72 warbird line is Italeri reboxes. These are only supposed to be available in the asian market, but you know how things are these days. However, the Skyray, Thunderjet and WWII planes are Tamiya tools and very nice. They are of course, more expensive though. I got suckered into buying a couple of the reboxes just to be disappointed once I got them.

Looking at the Tamiya catalogue, it's plain to see Tamiya is targeting ALL modelers. Their 1/72 "Warbirds" line is very inexpensive (less than 10 bux US), as are their older aircraft and armor kits.They also sell tons of their "Dangun Racer" and "Mini FWD" kits to hordes of kids here in Japan.

It's also plain to see that their newest automobile, aircraft and armor kits are targeting the more serious modeler, as does their very expensive line of RC vehicles.

They have even re-released their old 1/48 motorized armor series, both as kits and as pre-built "toys," both for under 10 bux US.

Thus, I think Tamiya, besides offering some of the best kits produced today, also offer a wide variety of kits at different levels of pricing.

They ain't all just 50 dollar Swordfishes and Tigers!

Do you guys think Tamiya is "better" than other kit manufacturers because other Tamiya is INDEED better (meaning other manufacturers can't catch up even if they tried) or is it just because other manufacturers are targeting toward a different audience? (the lower budget modelers)

For example, Ford and Toyota both makes family sedans, when it comes to overall quality and reliability, Ford is not as good as Toyota (even if Ford is trying hard)

But on another hand, both Toyota and Lexus are good quality (same manufacturer), but Lexus is "better" because it's targeting a different audience (higher budge buyers).

So, what's the relationship between Tamiya and other manufacturers? Maybe Tamiya is targeting the serious modelers while other manufacturers are targeting the less serious or the great majority of the modelers.

I mean, injection molding is not rocket science. Any company can make great quality plastic kit as long as they are willing to spend the money and man power on the tooling, which will be reflected in the price of the kit.

So, by that same thinking, should we all buy inferior cars to help hone our mechanical skills? Buy old, dilapidated houses to hone our carpentry skills? Buy the cheapest, least-tasty cooking ingredients to hone our cooking skills?
Well, I suppose if you want to do that, then, sure.

I'm sorry, but it just amuses me everytime I hear this "criticism" of Tamiya or Hasegawa or any of the "better" (but more expensive) model companies.
Imagine, being criticized for being too good!
In my opinion, even with the best-fitting, most accurate kits, there is still plenty of room for improvement, for us to be "creative" and take the kit from a simple assembly of parts to a work of art. Just because a kit goes together well and is accurate out of the box doesn't limit the amount of creativity we as modelers can put into it.

I've said this before, but to those of you who feel the need for a "challenge," and don't want to feel "coddled" by a well-designed, good-fitting, accurately-detailed kit, why don't you just scratchbuild all of your models? That way, you need not share the glory with any model company at all, good or bad.

I never decide what I want to build solely on the brand name. I build what I want to build based on the subject, and choose what I think is the best kit of that subject available.

Again, sorry for the attitide here.

I'll have to agree with demono69 on this topic. I'll still grab a kit which I know has gotten less than stellar reviews even though Tamiya makes a perfect version of the same kit. For one, not all Tamiya kits are sent straight from Heaven above. Their F-84 kits are not as accurate as the Pro-Modeler version. So not everything from Tamiya will be absolutely perfect. Second of all, Why should I buy one Tamiya kit when I can buy three other kits for the same price? Third of all, I like to think of myself as being a little bit more than a "plastic assembler". I can always glue "Tab A into Slot B" but it's when I have to use my own creativity and know-how, that's when I derive the greatest satisfaction out of building a kit. If all the kits were like Tamiya then we wouldn't need a publication like FSM to give us hints, tips, and advice on building things. We'd just be able to slap it together and call it a day.

By the way, don't get me wrong. I do THOROUGHLY enjoy working on Tamiya kits but I hope everyone can expand their universe by working on other kits as well. Don't exclude them just because it doesn't say "Tamiya" on the box.

Eric

I have the Tamiya 1/48 F-4D-1. I also have their F-84G and MIG-15 bis in 1/48 scale. All are great kits. But how about a F-94D in 1/48? Or a RF-101C? And the early Navy jets I mentioned before?

I bought the 1/72 Skyray and it's fantastic. I was hoping that Tamiya would put out more 1/72 (not rebox) but it's not looking like it's going to happen. The F-84 is the only one of this series I haven't gotten yet. The F4U, Spitfire, FW-190 and P-51 are great too. I have the Academy Banshee (1/72) and it's pretty good.