Ready to give up on Italeri

well the V 22 is nmot nice ? damn i just order it , its the only kit with 1/48. and its an old kit ? shit. No wonder the guy still selling it.

I never done much itareli kits though, i only done the super cobra . seems nice to me

but face it , like Hulk says i prefer to buy model base on the subjects and if the model is not as good then well use scratch built or use after market parts to it then.
And smash kits b4 too , well. sighs :(

I'd lke to quickly point out that evolution and religeon are not mutually exclusive. Evolution could just be a clever way for god to improve things without anyone noticing.

Well, first shamrage, there are three things you never discuss in public: Money, Religion, Politics. SO, if you don't want a fight, don't make statements like you made up there. Though in my line of works, there seem to be people who act like really trained monkeys.
Secondly, I just got a Testors 1/32 YF-22. Probalby a big mistake, but I couldn't beat the price. Besides, it's going to be an experiment vehicle for making custom decals, before I invest in the Academy 1/32 F-18D that is due out sometime soon(If anybody has a more specific timetable, PLEASE let me know).
I have had a beef with a kit that I have read a lot about, but may not get because of What I have heard: The Trumpeter 1/32 A-10. The reason I say this is that in all the reviews I have read, the kit sounds more like an upscaled 1/72 kit: little or no cokcit detail, inaccurate weapons, etc. There is no less than 7 companies that released a cockpit set for this A version of the kit. At least three have released exterior detail sets. And then there are all the traditional add ons that normally released for extra detail. No compare this to the Academy 1/32 F/A-18C. The reviews that I have read label this a superb model, with many excellent options for ordinance. It has an elaborately detailed cockpit, and wheel well sections. There has been only one aftermarket cockpit set to date. Both are about the same price, depending where you get them, but I think that it is ridiculous to spend so much, and then have to spend more to build an accurate replica. But, as J-hulk states, It is the only one available. In fact, the A-10B N/AWS is the ONLY kit of its kind available in any scale. And it would be fun to get the Black Box cocpit, and combine it with the Eduard set, and just about build every instrument in the "tub". But to each theri own. It is a free market, and we all have the right to decide what we will and will not purchase, if it is available to us.

Unfortunately I really feel the same way as everyone else. Its sad to see that they put all these kits out that everyone wants but dont put any time or effort into the details that everyone wants out of a model like the interior. I mean how can you actually sit there and put a decal for the instrument panel. Take note italeri that there are alot of people that are really pissed at you.

I recently fininshed italeri's F-18 f two seater, and although it wasn't the best quality kit ive ever seen, it still turned out in the end to be a good model (with a little work). The bottom line is, a good modeler can make a good model from just about any kit, and italeri models are cheaper overall than say tamiya.

Number one, I guess we're all just really, really well trained monkeys. I refuse to go into the evolution vs. religion fight any further than that.
Number two, I guess to be more colloquial, "shamrage" == "Tazmanian Devil". Like leaving a trail of pointless destruction. I think it's funny to imagine hating the fit on a model so much that one blasts it to bits. Life's too short.

John P,

I'm right with you on this one. I have the Italeri F-18E in 1/48 and I don't even know if I want to start building it, especially with Revell-Monogram coming out with one in the first quarter of 2004. I have had it with Italeri. I think their stuff is pure trash, the only reason I bought the Super Hornet is that it is the only one in the scale. Like you, if I get one major problem with the build, it is going in the trash and Italeri goes on my permantent list!

It is not just fit problem with Italeri, I can handle that, all manufacturers have fit problems, even the vaunted Tamiya and Hasegawa. But in every Italeri kit it seems that there are one or two parts that don't even seem like they belong to the same model. They always have a few parts in each kit that completly do not fit, not at all, not even close, as though the parts are for a different A/C.

I know some or most of you don't have this opinion of Italeri, and if they have good kits I wouldn't mind building those. It is just the kits I have built are pure junk. The F-18E is their last chance to have me as a customer.

John P, wow, I didn't know that you could get that much detail out of a testors kit. They must use photoshop to make the modles look as good as they do on the box.

JohnP,
for your convenience:

QUOTE: Originally posted by ShamRage I guess in med school I remember reading about an experiment on an animal (probably a monkey) that used an electrode to stimulate the peri-4th-ventricular grey matter of the brain. The animals displayed "sham rage" which means that they just tore stuff apart, whatever was in reach, without any specific object to their anger. Bascially went ape-crazy. Sometimes is how I feel after a tough day at work, driving home in the dark, pounding out the Limp Bizkit tunes ("Break Stuff"). My other handle on other forums is RigidSig, for those of you who've seen a colorectal surgeon, you'll know what that is...

i will leave the interpretation to you, but i believe he was pointing out a similarity in tempers between you & he.
and some monkeys, come to think on it.

ed.
i'll be hiding under my desk if you need me.

I hear you John P. There has been a time or two when I had thought about putting a crappy kit back in it's box with a note expressing my unfiltered opinion and mailing it to the company from whence it came.

Well, the V-22 is a reissue of Testors' prototype V-22 kit from about 10-15 years ago. If you look close you can see mysterious scribings on the surface that were locator squares for antenna and test pitots that were on that kit, but are not on the current MV-22.

Those rotor cuffs are a bitch to fill and smooth too!

The thing that annoyed me the most is the decals - the box painting AND model photos show dark gray markings on a ghost gray aircraft. But the decals are the opposite - lighter than ghost gray. I fished around Boeing's photo gallery trying to get a definitive answer, but apparently it went both ways and it ain't easy to make out the right markings for the particular plane the kit represents.

That's one of the kits I wanted to "bang out quickly" for my shelf at work, so I just held my breath and went with the kit decals so I could move on:

http://www.inpayne.com/models/v22.html

-

I wish Italeri would say on the box if the kit new, retooled or what. For example, kit #2620 SH-60B has nice molds, recessed lines and a good review from FSM. Kit #2622 V-22, on the other hand, has raized panel lines and from the pics on the side of the box one can't make out what kind of panel lines it has. I think they photoshopped the pictures. Both kits are issued in 2003 . I'm a little pissed off I guess at Italeri.
Borislav

it always pays to read kit reviews and use the forum....
good to now from my kiwi friend that the Italeri Harrier is good....

QUOTE: Originally posted by ShamRage Oh, it's called "The Story Behind Your Name" in the General Discussion / Off Topic category. Lots of replies from people on the Forum, telling how they chose the names they did for their handle.

Well I'm not gonna scavenge thru 8 pages to find what you're talking about. Are you trying to say my "rage" at that Comanche is a "sham?" I assure you it's not often I get pissed enough at a model to smash it to bits.

Hey, if they're releasing GOOD reboxings of other companies' kits along with their crappy ones, good on 'em. Too bad there's no way to find out until you buy it.

In defence of Italeri re releasing models from Esci, the Esci 1/72 Sea Harrier FRS 1 is THE Sea harrier model, long out of production, once it is re released here in NZ in a week or so I'll be buying at least two of them, Good on Italeri for releasing the best molding ever of this aircraft.

QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk For me personally, however, I don't choose what I wish to build based on the manufacturer, but based on the subject... Buy their products only when there is no alternative.

Bingo, J-Hulk!
See, here's the project: I work at ITT Avionics as a graphic artist. A recent renovation has given me a tad more cubicle space so I put in a shelf with the intention of combining work and hobby - I'd build a series of models of the aircraft we have electronics on and put them on my shelf. To that end I picked up the only kits available in 1/48 of those subjects. Italeri's F-22, V-22, F/A-18E, and Panda's F-35. I figured, since they were new, modern kits, I could bang them out while the paint's drying on the more involved projects (I usually have 3 to 5 kits on the bench at once). The V-22 went together okay, being an older Testors kit (though the Italeri decals don't agree with the box art or photos of the prototype model ) . The Panda kit built fine, although it has tons of inaccuracies. So I get two kits on the shelf at work (that I'm not entirely happy with due to the makers' inadequacies) and I hit a roadblock with a new kit from a major kitmaker that's going to take way too much work to make presentable. Pfah! Pfah, I say! :D

QUOTE: Having said all that, John P, I will add that I understand that it sure does feel good to rant about a crap product!

Again, BINGO!! :D

And again I ask, why doesn't Hasegawa do these airplanes? Does Italeri/ Svezda have the licensing locked up for 1/48?

The trading of molds between companies is very vexing for me as well, thats why I spend more time these days researching the origins of "new" kits than actually purchasing them. The manufacturers have created a real spider web for us hobbyists to cut through.

As an example, in the past year, Italeri released a 1/72 F-8 Crusader. I didn't buy it, but I saw it in the box once and I swear it was the Hasegawa kit I built 15 years ago. Not a bad kit, but still some honesty would be nice.

I think price has to be an issue in what you can expect a kit to be straight from the box. I've noticed the price differential between Italeri and Hasegawa kits where I am is much greater than what's been mentioned further up in this forum. Both Hasegawa and Italeri currently have 1/72 F-111s on the market, I know the Hasegawa one is a reissue of their FB-111 of the mid 80s made to look like a current RAAF F-111G. I suspect the Italeri kit is also a reissue of somebody's kit.

The Italeri kit is around 20 to 25 dollars Canadian while the Hasegawa is flying around 45 to 50 dollars Canadian. I have the Hasegawa kit on the go and they didn't change anything but the decals from the first release of the kit as an FB-111. Thats a steep price to be paying for a reissue that essentially hasn't been changed or upgraded in any way.

To Italeri's defence, I can say in the past few years that I've built their 1/48 Eurofighter and the only complaint I could make is that the cockpit consoles are all decals. Not only did I have no fit problems, I didn't even need filler anywhere!

I built their 1/72 T-45 Goshawk a few years before and can say its a real gem of a kit. went together like a breeze, I'd built it again anytime.

I've never built their 1/48 Panavia Tornados, but I've known folks that did and I've heard nothing but glowing remarks about them.

All the mold trading requires a different approach to kit purchasing than good old brand loyalty. Its getting to the point where I wish Consumer Reports would start putting out a modelers version of their magazine.

Shopping around is a must and research into the kits we might want before purchase is also getting to be a must. Dig around enough and you'll find out if a kit is really new or a reissue quietly making its way back onto the market under someone else's label.

Italeri is no more guilty of making a crap kit than any other Western manufacturer. I've built kits from the likes of Hasegawa that have given me fits and almost made me want to swear off the brand. With all the mold trading, the brand mark on the box is getting irrelevant, it could be anybody's stuff inside.

Don't shoot the (most recent) messenger

This theme comes up from time to time, against various manufacturers, and for whatever reasons. To me, there's a very simple solution: don't buy that company's products, which is the conclusion John P is rapidly coming to concerning Italeri. That is certainly the prerogative of any consumer.

For me personally, however, I don't choose what I wish to build based on the manufacturer, but based on the subject, as I'd guess a lot of us do. So, when I decide on a subject, I look for the best kit. If the only available kit is from a company that I view as sub-standard, I'll get it anyway, knowing it's not going to be an easy build. But if I really want to build that particular subject, I don't mind working a little harder. Sure, fit problems or lack of satisfactory detail are frustrating let-downs, but I can deal with them.

The point is, my advice to anyone who is considering boycotting a particular company because of construction difficulties is to just put them at the bottom of your list. Buy their products only when there is no alternative.

Having said all that, John P, I will add that I understand that it sure does feel good to rant about a crap product!

some of their models are really nice. The Viking is a re-issue of the mid eighties Esci. At its prime it was top notch.....ok nort now but still very decent. it is not meant to be shake and ready kind of model. Always remeber that before passing judgment.

Oh, it's called "The Story Behind Your Name" in the General Discussion / Off Topic category. Lots of replies from people on the Forum, telling how they chose the names they did for their handle.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ShamRage QUOTE: I smashed the Comanche helicopter to bits out of frustration Now that's an example of sham rage! (See Shermanfreak's thread on how we all chose our nicknames for this site)

Sorry, but I have no idea what you're referring to, and I can't find any thread started by that person.

Nice apologism, but it doesn't matter WHO provided the molds or parts to Italeri, it's got their name on the box. In fact, I suspect Svezda IS doing the modern aircraft series that Italeri boxes. And sadly, Revell also sells the same F-22 kit under their famous label. It's not safe to buy models by manufacturer any more, the way everyone is sharing molds these days. You buy Revell, you get Svezda. You buy Hasegawa, you get Monogram (and vice versa). You buy Academy you get HobbyCraft....

In any case, I have turned many a sow's ear into a silk purse in my life, but when EVERY kit I buy on a certain subject from a certain manufacturer has at least one major fit issue, it takes away my enjoyment of my passtime, and turns me away from that manufacturer.

Price doesn't matter a whit. ProModeler kits have given me Trimaster quality at Monogram prices (since many are from the same moldmakers), and Czech resin kits that cost $40+ need great skill and lotsa rework to finish nicely - and I DO finish them nicely.

And the difference between the Italeri F-22 at $22 and the Hasegawa F-15 (for example) at $29, ain't that much. Are we saying that if it's around 2/3 the price, then 1/3 of the parts don't need to fit right?

Folks, I've been building models for 40 years, and I think I'm pretty good at it by now. But I've also been stockpiling kits for 40 years, and with over 1,000 to build in the pile, I can't afford to be sidetracked for a couple of days fixing a problem that any reputable styrene kitmaker (who's been in the business as long as I've been modeling) should NOT have on their product. Kitmaking technology being what it is today, there's just no excuse for a new kit from a major player that can't be assembled without major fit issues on half a dozen parts.

BTW, I've just bought the Italeri S-3B and am looking forward to superdetailing it. By looking at the parts, esp. cockpit, it's clear that the detail is extremely sparse to nonexistent. Fortunately, there's a selection of aftermarket kits out there. You may want to look for some to help you acheive the level of detail that you want. Don't know how to fix the fit problems, though. C'mon, Italeri is from Italy; they can't be that bad! ;)

QUOTE: I smashed the Comanche helicopter to bits out of frustration

Now that's an example of sham rage! (See Shermanfreak's thread on how we all chose our nicknames for this site)

I was disappointed that my crappy F-18E cost $20. A hasegawa F-18C can be had for under $10 in some cases but no more than $18. Better quality, cheaper price, even at it's worst.

I'm not sure why some people get on Italeri's case like this. The only time I can see reason for it is when they try to re release something off of Testors or old Esci molds then you get the problems. Italeri's own kits are relatively trouble free in my experience. They can be a bit sparse in details, but I've never found them to have more fit problems than anyone else's kits in the same price range.

The best advice in dealing with an Italeri kit is to do careful research before buying to ensure it is indeed a true Italeri product. After that, just approach it as you would any other kit of comparable price. Yes, you'll get fit problems you won't find in Tamiya or Hasegawa offerings, but I find Italeri compares quite favorably with the likes of Revell, Monogram, Airfix, Heller and the more basic end of the Academy line.

You can't expect a perfectly engineered kit at the price most Italeri comes at, If you want a Hasegawa or Tamiya looking result, it can be acheived, but will require patience and a wilingness on your part to get your hands dirty with some scratchbuilding or aftermarket details.

Its manufacturers like Italeri that remind us all how important the basics are in the way of modeling skills. I've built kits of theirs that had fit problems, but nothing that some time dry fitting didn't overcome.

If you saw Pat Hawkey's article in last month's FSM about bringing Italeri's 1/72 EB-66 kit up to par, there's some proof that an Italeri kit can be a winner with a bit of work. He didn't even do anything really advanced to rectify the problems of the kit and its an old kit.

If you want to slam a manufacturer, there are many more worthy ones than Italeri. Zvezda and Zhengdefu are the first two that enter my mind for a good slamming.

I built (nearly) the 1/72 scale version. It looked okay in the box... I've stopped because hasegawa announced their F-18F (I'm sure that the E will come very soon) I may finish it, but I won't put much effort into it. If it weren't for my desire to do the Rafale, F-5E and a couple of others, I would never touch Italeri unless doing armor.