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Wacky Nashorn Colour Scheme

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Wacky Nashorn Colour Scheme
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 10:09 AM
Hi everyone.

I'm going to start work on the DML 6165 Hornisse kit and I'm looking around for paint schemes... I stumbled upon this site with what looks to be some crazy-fruity camo scheme... Is this an accurate camo scheme that would have been used? And how would it have been applied? Is it the red-brown/green camo colours painted over a whitewash? or what?

http://www.jagdtiger.de/GermanTanks/Hornisse-01.htm

Thanks all!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 10:22 AM
Sadly I’m not convinced by the colours or some of the camo schemes Kubinka have repainted their vehicles in resent years.

All ill say is this; camo that was applied in the field by the crews, gives us modellers a free hand really. I have somewhere a pic of 2 Panthers in a column with completely different schemes. So as long as your happy with what you do, it would be hard for someone to say it was historically wrong.

If I find the pic of the Panthers I’ll post it.


Oh and welcome to the Forum
  • Member since
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  • From: USA
Posted by mark956 on Monday, November 17, 2003 10:36 AM
Ex949, I agree with box1. You can paint it like whats in the pictures. Good luck.
mark956
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Monday, November 17, 2003 11:13 AM
Sign - Welcome [#welcome], Ex949!

The paint on most museum pieces is rarely accurate, sad to say.

I really like that Kubinka Hornisse, though! As the others have said, do what ya like. I'm working on the Tiger II as it was at Bovington in the 80's, so I'd say doing that Hornisse just as it is at Kubinka would be an interesting model.
~Brian
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 12:03 PM
wacky or not, that is just incredibly pleasing to the eye ! i love the way it looks, and as J-Hulk says, even if it's not an authentic battle scheme (and who's to say it isn't ?), there is the prototype right there if anyone asks ! those germans did a lot of wacky stuff with armor and camo, for sure ! go for it !!!
frostySmile [:)]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 1:14 PM
I don't think any crew that was trying to camo their vehicle in Europe would use a pattern that would be better suited to the jungle. Looks very creative though! I think my aunt had some drapes like that once.

Ron.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 1:53 PM
Well, maybe I'll use my imagination and make it work... maybe hornisse deployed to russia, crew added winterwash... then found some field-applied camo paint and tried something different? If I try this, then I'll have to scruff up the edges of the winterwash to make it more appropriate... Course I'm not sure what I'll do with the open compartment... maybe I'll leave it panzer grey.

And as for the jungle look with the sharp corner cresents, I think I saw it on the Marder IIIM review (albeit green on panzer yellow) a few months back in FSM?

Thanks for the encouragement everyone!
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: New Hampshire, USA
Posted by link955 on Monday, November 17, 2003 2:22 PM
OH NOOOOOOOO Shock [:O]
Good lord! That looks like some demented museum curator's LSD-induced idea of a camo scheme! And I agree with Poniatowski... looks like kitchen curtains (BAD kitchen curtains). While the Germans were quite liberal with camo schemes, this is so ridiculous... well... maybe they hoped the enemy would die laughing at this paint job and save them the ammo. Geez... makes my skin crawl. At least the vehicle itself is intact and offers good reference material; it appears, on the outside at least, to be 90% complete. It should be noted the muzzle brake belongs on a leFH18 105mm howitzer, however.
Ne cede malis (Latin: Yield not to misfortune)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 2:48 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by link955

OH NOOOOOOOO Shock [:O]
Good lord! That looks like some demented museum curator's LSD-induced idea of a camo scheme! And I agree with Poniatowski...


Then again, link, the German crews did often put their camo on themselves in the field, and often just slopped in on with a brush. I have seen some freaky-weird camo schemes on German vehicles in the pictures. The most well-known one is that Picasso-esque scheme on an assault gun (IIRC).
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 2:53 PM
I don't think tribal was popular back then.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 3:39 PM
The three color camouflage sceme used by the German military from mid 1943 to the end of the war was the most varied of all combatants in the war. New vehicles leaving the factory were to be painted overall dark yellow, additional camouflage was to be applied in the field by the crews themselves or in field work stations. The choices of colors, application and patterns was left entirely to field commanders. This obviously lead to a great amount of variation in appearance, even between vehicles of the same unit. Dark yellow, olive green and red-brown camouflage paint was issued in 2 and 20 kg cans as a concentrated paste, much like shoe polish. This concentrate was to be diluted with gasoline and the most common method of application was with a spray gun. In many situations, application with a spray gun was not possible and almost every possible way to apply paint was used; brushes, mops, brooms, rags, sponges, even with their bare hands. The "artist ability" of the individual crews added to the variation. Due to shortages of gasoline, water, kerosene, other solvents, even used motor oil, was used to dilute the paint concentrates. This produced a huge variation in pigment densities and colors, making the amount of variation in colors and patterns virtually limitless. Winter white-wash was applied in an equally haphazard manner, sometimes a complete coating, other times merely stripes, dots or scruffy blotches. Believe it or not, I actually found a wartime picture of a Nashorn with green and brown paste applied over the white wash to breakup the vehicles shape, very similar to the photo from Kubinka. This is on page 64 of Squadron's Panzer Colors, volume I. I can scan in the image and post it if you want it.
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 4:16 PM
Hi leopold.

I would be most delighted if you could scan it in and post it!

It'd add some variation to the usual winter-wash scheme.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Central Wisconsin
Posted by Spamicus on Monday, November 17, 2003 5:16 PM
The photo Leopold refers to isn't a really good one, but it does lend some creedance to the Kubinka example. I think the museum piece is actually painted in a sand color base coat rather than white, but the "pattern" is easily acceptable. Go with what you like.

Steve

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Monday, November 17, 2003 5:52 PM
Accurate or not, it is indeed an interesting camo scheme. If you like it I don't think anybody can stop you from doing it.

Good luck.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Monday, November 17, 2003 6:30 PM
I agree that the white is probably a sand or light yellow. If the camo were not so in your face, it might look more credible. Truth being, it probably existed. I have certainally seen some interesting examples.

"It is well that war is so terrible, lest we grow too fond of it."-R.E.Lee

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 7:19 PM
Here is the image of a Nashorn with green and brown swatches brushed over white wash:

I don't know what that Kubinka image is supposed to be! If the base color is intended to be Dunklegelb, it is the lightest shade I've ever seen. It sure looks close to white on my screen! In either case, bold, brush painted stripes over dark yellow or white wash is certainly permissable.
I also don't know why this image didn't post, the sytax looks good from here.
Here is the URL: http://rongeorge.com/modules/Gallery/armorref/Winter_Nashorn
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Monday, November 17, 2003 7:42 PM
Here you go .... It took me a minute to figure out what was wrong. You used the page url for posting the pic Leopold. What you need to do is right click on the picture itself, select properties and then copy the entire url from there.



Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 8:36 PM
I found out at the last model show I went to that wacky wins sometimesBig Smile [:D] A fella painted a tiger tank to look like a tiger, orange and while, Great looking but might as well have said SHOOT ME. But it looked great and as others have said, there are tons of different camo schemes in pics so you can't really go wrong
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, November 17, 2003 9:26 PM
Thanks for the help Robert. This was my first attempt at posting images and I must have missed something in the directions. Dunce [D)]
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Monday, November 17, 2003 10:49 PM
Leopold - that's part of the learning curve around here .... it's a short curve but has a tricky bend every now and then.

miller - the Tiger you are referring to is our own Renarts beast of prey



and here's the thread it was in

http://www.finescale.com/fsm/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8357
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: New Hampshire, USA
Posted by link955 on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:35 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by leopold

Here is the image of a Nashorn with green and brown swatches brushed over white wash:

I don't know what that Kubinka image is supposed to be! If the base color is intended to be Dunklegelb, it is the lightest shade I've ever seen. It sure looks close to white on my screen! In either case, bold, brush painted stripes over dark yellow or white wash is certainly permissable.

On my screen the base color looked like a medium grey, with a yellow cast. And yes I agree with the other threads there was a great variation in camo schemes... but that one sure looked wacko to meLaugh [(-D].. but go with what you like I guess. The beauty of armor modeling is that almost anything goes.
Ne cede malis (Latin: Yield not to misfortune)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 2:42 AM
Upon closer examination, (including the fact that I didn't look the second page of the Kubinka Nashorn), it does appear to have a base coat of Dunklegelb, especially when you can contrast it against the pure white lettering of "Abstand 50m". It just doesn't look very Dunkle! Lighting variations, camera color balance (if digital), film bias (if film), monitor settings.....who knows? Look at the variation between the first and last images on the second page alone. But you are right link955, it is yellow, not white wash. It just looks so garish because it is very clean and the yellow is so light. But despite the color problems, the pattern is well within the range of possiblities, be it yellow with stripes, or white wash with stripes. Maybe if someone threw a bucket of mud on it, it would look better!
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 5:56 AM
Hi all. Thanks everyone for the investigating! I'll look into it a bit more, but I think I will end up trying it out! Sure it's strange, but it'll be an interesting paint job! Now to hunt down Nuts and Bolts Vol. 14....
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Upstate NY
Posted by Build22 on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 7:59 AM



Link955,

Earlier were you trying to imply Poniatowski's Aunt has bad taste in kitchen curtains?Laugh [(-D]




Great to see that Tiger again ! Wow!! [wow]

Jim [IMG]
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 1:59 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Build22




Link955,

Earlier were you trying to imply Poniatowski's Aunt has bad taste in kitchen curtains?Laugh [(-D]




You should see the Ambush pattern curtains she has in her bathroom, as well as the 'zim sim' wall paper in the den.Wink [;)]

Ron.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 6:28 PM
Paint away!!!

Hi, I'm back from aircraft pergatory. Forgive me for I have sinned against the barrel.
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Upstate NY
Posted by Build22 on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:35 PM
QUOTE: You should see the Ambush pattern curtains she has in her bathroom, as well as the 'zim sim' wall paper in the den.



Hysterical - Ron P.

My grandmother had the same exact decorator but she use to wear army boots ! Big Smile [:D]Laugh [(-D]Big Smile [:D]


Jim [IMG]
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: New Hampshire, USA
Posted by link955 on Tuesday, November 18, 2003 9:41 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Poniatowski

QUOTE: Originally posted by Build22




Link955,

Earlier were you trying to imply Poniatowski's Aunt has bad taste in kitchen curtains?Laugh [(-D]




You should see the Ambush pattern curtains she has in her bathroom, as well as the 'zim sim' wall paper in the den.Wink [;)]

Ron.

Hey, I think I had that wallpaper in my first apartment. And I intended no insult to Poniatowski's aunt. I would never insult another guy's aunt, especially a fellow Polack (and before the censor has a stroke: "Polack" is the Polish word for someone from Poland, so relax).Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]
Ne cede malis (Latin: Yield not to misfortune)
  • Member since
    October 2003
  • From: New Hampshire, USA
Posted by link955 on Wednesday, November 19, 2003 1:21 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by leopold

I think that the folks at Kubinka might of had something more like this in mind when they quaffed a few liters vodka and called the Moscow branch of Maaco to come over and paint their Nashorn:



A tighter, overlapping pattern of stripes, a lot less neatly applied and a much more reasonable shade of Dark Yellow. But anyway, this IS a better representation of a brush painted, striped pattern and since Wiking fought on the Russian front, the folks at Kubinka might have actually been familiar with this sceme, despite their lousy ability to reproduce it.

Agreed, leopold; Maybe after all the vodka they got lazy. Or maybe they had to stretch a limited amount of paint over several museum vehicles. Or maybe it was.. aw skip it. I still think they were just nutsLaugh [(-D]
Ne cede malis (Latin: Yield not to misfortune)
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 28, 2003 6:45 PM
i think all of the Kubinkas cammo schemes are based on real photos
if you look at the panther and tiger there quet famous photos and the Maus is painted in the same way it was in 1944 so why not the Nashorn
its great that a museum is looking after its armour and painting them the way they were painted
id love to get to see Kubinkas photo album (all those un released photos)
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