M923 Gun Truck and FMTV question

God....I'm glad that's over. Thought we were going to run our of space at the urinal!!

Rounds Complete!!

Sorry I don't meet all your needs as quickly as you would like.  Also, I said "I strive for accuracy."  I never said I always reach it.  Sometimes good enough is good enough.  You have to have a limit to what you put into a build, on the M3A1 (which was far from my latest build) I reached that point. 

I am happy with the way mine look, if you are with yours, great.  More power to you.  Why do you care so much what others think anyways?

I could really care less how you build your models.  Just pointing out ways to improve them.  You can either take them or leave them.  Its up to you.  Same as I did on the M3A1 build.

For the question in the Group Build, I never saw it, I don't have time to follow all the group builds.

Hope you feel better now.  Now that you got that huge chip off your shoulder can we get back to modeling subjects. 

here's the real interior and how you (sic) build should have looked.

Like some one like me and otheres (sic) that didn't have a "Military" background.

"Now you've done it..."

You might wanna re-think your last...  You may be calling fire in on your own position...

Cool and about the decal issue yes I did ask but I didn't ask you directly. Some time it takes you a long tome to respond and I move on. I know how to copy and past images I posted a full how to tut on doing that, same as you man. I just thought you may have found them on line some where and that they would be easy to get, but you just made them up. You know makeing up labes is not right by your standers and I Quote: I strive for accuracy, not just someting that sort of looks like it. Your decal labes are rong. For some one that said and I quote you [Sir]: [I am around these vehicles every day] some one like you that strives for accuracy would have taking the time to eather pop photos them self or know where to get true images of the label so your build would be as accurate as you make them out to be.

Well I thought I should go back find the post and read where I asked the queststion. I asked it in the [The Gulf Wars GroupBuild--Operations Desert Storm & Iraqi Freedom] Hosted by Townsy11, on page 2.

An to my surprise you DID NOT Answer that question. You did answer that same question on Armorama forum for some but not in there (for me). Remember you gave him a link to a place where you get you Inkjet paper (papilio): http://www.papilio.com/ 

There are no posts from you in that GB at all (From page 1 to 8) "Bup Kiss"

I also soo that some of the things you pointed out rong on my build you to got rong and was pointed out on Armorama. And you respone was one of "oh-well" but you saw noting rong in pointing that same flaw out on my work. (The blocked off Gun ports of you ODS M3A1) When there should have not bean thear at all. But like you said you strives for accuracy. There's a name for that (hypocrite)-[adjective] Definition:a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings.

Your Bradley:

Interior labes are not accurate ("Must be accurate") any thing less is a wast of your time, and that is your latest project.

here's the real interior and how you build should have looked.

OR:

The M3A3 interior:

And the turret:

Well I finely go that of my chest. Sorry FSF for my poor adatud and  comments, but I had a chip on my sholder that I just had to get off.

I guess you haven't been reading too many of my posts.  I do tell how to do things and freely give out ideas.  I guess you are still sore that I pointed out faults in your Bradley as well.  On the labels, I told you how I did it.  I went Googling and found some warning labels, copied, resized and printed them on decal paper.  I don't know how I could make it more clear. 

To each their own though.  Some people just want everything handed to them.  And for me, making an accurate model is fun, not a job at all.  I strive for accuracy, not just someting that sort of looks like it.  I am around these vehicles every day.  Not being accurate on them just doesn't seem right to me.

If you don't want advice, don't ask for it.

Well I truly see your point of view on modeling.  

I Quote you:[I am not trying to downplay your M2A3 build, you are just not the only one doing Bradleys.  There have been others w/the ERA as well.  Here as well as at Armorama and other sites.  We have differing opinions on reasons for building models as well.  I see an inaccurate and unresearched build as a waste of my time.  I don't believe in "the effort is what counts."  I think the end product is what counts.]

Your thinking is if some one build something and it's not just right and up to your likeing, you will abject to it. So far as the joy of building you seem to look at it like a mission or job and I now understand that be-ing that you a life long Service man. As a retired wheel holder aka Truck driver long hall, I see guys some times building Tracktor trucks rong but I dont point out every Little thing that is rong with there work. Some times I try give them pointers on things to help or give them a new direction.

See from my point of view I look at model building not as a job but as fun and some of the time and as a way to pass on modelings top secret ideas and skills, that most modelers are unwilling to shear. Like those labe decals in you M2. Or how to get that cool weathered look. I now know how to make the decal sheet and do wethering. But when it come to giving out that info I see no need to do it with force. Like a Drill Sgt. (I goofed on typing Stg sorry for that) An some times I'm not always right and I willing to point out my oun goof ups. Some of us don't see any thing we do or say as rong and there are unwilling to yeld and like [Gov. Palin]-[VP to be] said that's ok to.  Like you said: [When you see] I see an (inaccurate) and (unresearched) build as a waste of my time. (White_r34):I must point out it's not a wast of your time no one on any site or forum is building to please you [Sir] Said by [Keith Olbermann of MSMBC's CountDown].

There are a lot of us on here and on othere sites that have what is called a teachers hart.. From family and friends that are teachers and one that is a Ret. USMC-"Marine" and a Teacher now.  She tells me there's to ways to teach there's the military way and a nonmilitay way, and most guys lack the skills to teach in eather way. Like some one like me and otheres that didn't have a "Military" background.

As she also said after reading what you poseted, that she is proud of your service to your country. She told me to tell you if you see work that you don't like and is of poor quality have a good hart to just try to say some thing good or say not thing at all. If you must say some thing try to phrase if like this: ([My I suggest]  or [My I make a suggestion that you try])  and  then give a link with photos and then tell the person that they may want to try use your link to get better at what there built or trying to build.

Well these are all talking points said by [Mr. John Mccain]. "Cant we all just get along" said by [Rodney Glen King]

Reckon he was lookin' for a complete url, Gino, not the link in the format you did it in..

White, you should have used your mouse and you'd have found the link.

It's in the first reply right here where I've bolded it:

The LMTV model looks really nice though.

Place your cursor on the words, "LMTV model" and you'll see what I mean...

I see it's incanvenyent for you to post a link so I will do it for you sir...

No need to get pissy.  I linked the LMTV story in my original reply.  All you had to do was scroll up.  The red text is a link to it.  You can do the searching if you want to see the builds at Armorama, which you did.  There have been a few others as well.  One guys built a coupl ereally nice M2A3s and is working on a conversion set for them.  You can see his [url=http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=112277&page=1]here.[/ur l] Kim's is definitely a masterpiece.  I chose not to go that detailed, especially since probably at  least 50% of what he did will never be seen once it is all put together.

I am not trying to downplay your M2A3 build, you are just not the only one doing Bradleys.  There have been others w/the ERA as well.  Here as well as at Armorama and other sites.  We have differing opinions on reasons for building models as well.  I see an inaccurate and unresearched build as a waste of my time.  I don't believe in "the effort is what counts."  I think the end product is what counts.  So be it.   

...what to you do over there in Iraq HeavyArty? [Job Title]-position in wich you work. I read some where that you may be an Altilery Stg. ...

I am actually an Artillery officer, a Major.  My current job title is Non-Lethal Effects Officer attached to 10th Mountain Division HQ.  Since there isn't much call for actual artillery firing in Iraq right now, the FA has taken on the job of coordinating other efforts to do with counter-insurgency operations.  I lead a cell that targets and preps the generals to meet w/Iraqi Govt. Leaders and Sheiks, etc.  Before coming over here, I was Bn Executive Officer (2nd in command) of an MLRS Bn at Ft Hood, TX.

Hey White

I have to be in Chicago this weekend for work and so I will also stop at Hobby Expo which is the annual show for hobby companies. Trumpter will have a display there and the FMTV is a kit I am waiting for so I will try to find out the release date.

I'll post some news for the gang next week....yeah, if I see any interesting.....German stuff, I'll let you know too.

Rounds Complete!! 

I see it's incanvenyent for you to post a link so I will do it for you sir...

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=4289

An the cab I see is stock an that is a good thing I have a lot I can do to this truck.

Kim Hyoung-Min M3A2 Bradley CFV build:

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=107003&page=1

I see that he's not done yet but MAN there's more detail in that build that eather your build or my build. but one thing stands out all that detail. An I'm going to save all his photos and login on that site as well to talk to his my selc to get more info. I bet he will know were to get thos labes from or the best way to photo shop them.

This is the most stunning work I have ever seen. I may not be able to build ever thing just like him but these photos will push me to try to boost my skill level a lot. I must talk with that guy, I also see you model on there as well. [HeavyArty] but you we don't come close to this guys level yet and yes I said yet as I'm going to push my self to get better.

His base model of the M3A2 is right on in it's detail, beats my build hands down. I have looked at that forum for all the othere M3A2s build and here a list of names. [From page 1 to page 85]

Matthew Quiroz: Photobucket images blocked, Gino P. Quintiliani: Images up,Scott: 1/72 scale, Pawel Krupowicz: No photos.

 I'll stop there as going deeper in to all those pages was not getting me anywhere. A lot of talk and no photos as time has gone on and some images have bean moved. So as I see it I'm not the first to build or try to build the M3A2 but I am the only one on this site or the Armorama site to use the ERA box Armor on any type of OIF Bradley in 1/35. I do see even more now on how I goofed up on my first build. I didn't do enough research. So what I did build is a M2A1 in to a M2A2 OIF Bradley w/ERA Armor. Even with all my errors mini on this site have said and pointed out that the effort is what counts. Well lets see what I come up with now that I have all these new photos and the "Scratchbuilding Experience" and my work with PE will come out better that when I built my first M2. I will be using my Big-ED PE set as well.

An about that engine man have you ever see the like in 1/35 well I think I can build that as well and I will post all my work on this project. Cant wate to see HeavyArty get back and start some new project.

So still what to you do over there in Iraq HeavyArty? [Job Title]-position in wich you work. I read some where that you may be an Altilery Stg. "just asking man"
 

The link to the Trumpeter M1078 is in my initial reply, its in red.  It is the standard, unarmored cab version.  It is supposed to be out soon, before the end of the year.

You will have to go search Armorama, they are there.

If you can could you put up a link to the info on that Trumpeter kit an a link so I can see the othere M2A3s from Armorama. As you know I like to scratchbuild if the cab of that Trumpeter kit is armored that would be ok but if it's not that would be a good thing for me. If I have to wate more than a year that I will build the MAN 7t an make it look like what I want till the kit comes out. Well thanks for the info on every thing.

Thanks man

If you are patient and wait a little while, the Trumpeter LMTV kit will be out soon.  You could easily convert one into an FMTV by combining two of them.  Using the 2nd rear axle and lengthening the bed and frame.  You would also have the correct tread pattern tires, as opposed to another model that is kind of close.  The armored cab wouldn't be too hard to do if that is what you want.  I would wait to get the actual truck and modify it.

By the way, the Stryker tires are not even close.  They are way too narrow.  The Man truck is close, but not really the same size. 

Yours isn't the only M2A3 I have seen built.  A few guys over at Armorama have done some really sweet, accurate builds of them.

the up dated Gun Truck I plan on building as for the small FMTV i was thinking of scratch building it but only one thing sticks out the tires. At first I thought well know one is always right on just give it my best shot like I tryed on my M2-Bradley. We see all the comments I got on that project. But to my good luck I found a lot of Images of the truck for a guy that like you drivers one in Iraq and he hit me up on some new photos and info that some time they that's the guys over there use two types of treded tires so as long as I get close he said one would thing that the effort is what matters most. So with his incragement I will try it. I still think out of all that was rong with my M2 Bradley I have the only one in 1/35 with scratch built ERA armor and the CITV unit on it.

Oh and heres an images where you can see the tire tred.

and one more:

Three tire tred types here:

As you and I hope you can see that the tire tred is not all the same. So that will hep me out a lot. I was thinking of using the German MAN t Cargo truck to start off with the tires look the most close to the night pics tire tred. An if any one is going to point out the Stryker I look at them as well, but there to thin I need a wide tire.

http://www.squadron.com/ItemDetails.asp?item=RG3081&Submit3=Go

Yes, there were home-made armor gun trucks like this in Iraq in the early, post invasion days.  They were pretty ineffective against IEDs and were around from late '03 to about late '04.  After that time, factory-built armor kits and fully armored cabs were seen.  Pretty much all M900 series 5 tons have been replaced by FMTVs by now as well.  You still see some running around the base camps, but not out on the streets.

Home-made Armor Guntrucks

Factory Armor Kit

There is no model of the M1080 5 ton FMTV out there.  Trumpeter has announced an M1078 LMTV, the 2 1/2 ton version (single rear axle and shorter bed).  They have also hinted at an FMTV in the future and both versions w/the armored cab as well.  We shall see.  The LMTV model looks really nice though.

M1078 or M1080 Armored Cabs