m3 Stuart -Japanese captured version?

Yeah, I must say the camo scheme Japan used really looks cool.

Took a look at the photo this weekend and I agree with Latch's intepretation of them. No matter what, I cannot concieve of any troops riding off of the back of a tank. There is soooo much dirt, rocks and crud being tossed up, any troops riding back there would certainly arrive in the battle worse for ware. UNLESS.. (a crucial unless here) it was used only for assults when the troops could kneel in the basket, use the tank for cover and supply some additional firepower at LOW speeds (walking speed). IN which they'd only have to put up with the dust kicked up by the radial and its exhaust.

Otherwise, it's just for transporting equipment... maybe. Perhaps. Kinda.

Cool camo schemes though, eh?

Ron

Thanks Tappie, I was also checking the pages on that site but forgot to check the AFV page. There's just so much info on that site.

About the camo on that Stuart http://member.nifty.ne.jp/takixxx/m3.html , what do you guys think the colors were?

Cool Site Tappie,

Thank you for sharing.

Try the following link if you haven't yet -
http://member.nifty.ne.jp/takixxx
Apparently the webmaster has info not available anywhere else, at least in the west.

Edit : I didn't read the posts on page 2 - I see you already pointed the way. Under AFV there is a pic of a captured M3 - real nice.

QUOTE: Originally posted by muzzleflash88 I have two japanese resin figures that would look great next to a tank. I was not sure what I would build and put them next to, but now I'm thinking maybe a captured item.... post some pics when u get it going.

O.K.

I have two japanese resin figures that would look great next to a tank. I was not sure what I would build and put them next to, but now I'm thinking maybe a captured item....

post some pics when u get it going.

Also check this site out http://member.nifty.ne.jp/takixxx/ it's pretty cool and has lots of info regarding the IJA but I've seen no photos of captured Stuarts.

The Academy -honey- kit gives you an option for 4 different versions
of this tank the first two are the lend-lease 'honey' versions (an
earlier and later version), the other a U.S. version and the Japanese
captured version.

At first I liked the earlier -honey- version, then the later version
but the Japanese captured version became more and more
interesting, there's a certain kind of mystery about it.

I also noticed a spare wheel on the sprue with a "center lock", It
would be perfect for the spare wheel in the photo.
Here's some info I got from the net:

-The Stuarts were the best tanks the Japanese ever had in WW2
they were superior in both firepower and armour compared to any
Japanese tanks
-A lot of Stuarts were captured by the Japs
-One Stuart was successfully landed in the Bataan peninsula and saw
action along with two chi-ha's

My theory about the mysterious-basket-thingie:

The Japanese occupation of the Philippines was short and hasty,
they have always been expanding from one place to another faster
than they can move their stuff around. They pushed back the allies
to the Bataan peninsula. And brought in more infantry and equipment
and since there were a lot of stuff to be transported they would
need whatever vehicle that was available back then to transport
their stuff around.
They might not have used the infantry behind the
tank tactic since the 'basket' has wires or rods on both top left and
right corners and would be a hassle or should I say a struggle to
get in. Also if you look closely on the photo the lowest part of the
basket is mounted rear fender high. The basket look way too high to
climb into and being asian we aren't the tallest of beings, you'd be
like a baby strugglin' out of your crib trying to climb on to that one.

Muzzleflash- I am just starting to cut the parts from the sprues. I don't think I'll build this to match the photo but I'm planning to make a diorama for this. I'm still thinking about
how it should be but I would like it to look mysterious and lonely. I would like to build this with the hatches open but from reviews I've seen the kit came with the incorrect interior so maybe I should try re-arranging or even scratchbuilding mine. I just hope it turns out fine. (I can almost see the mess on my workbench)

Muzzleflash,

If you find any additional info on this or other Japanese armor, please let us know.

I would love to get some additional information on Japanese armor.

(OK, OK....It's true. I like the weird and unusual stuff!)

I agree whole heartedly: Any stuart captured by the Jap Army would be the best tank in their service.

Maybe the basket was used to carry pieces of the soldiers after encountering the rightful owners of the tank OOOoohrah I bet seeing a Stuart with a meatball painted on the side really rousted the Americans to fight even harder. Captured vehicles in WW2 has always been an interesting topic. There are so many ways to "use" those captured vehciles.

So are you bulding your kit to match the photo? WIll there be a diorama?

Post some more pics when you get it going :)

QUOTE: Originally posted by Poniatowski Interesting. Now you've gotten me curious also! Hey, why would they put infantry in baskets? Didn't trust them to hang onto the tank? Thought they might get nervous and get the tank 'dirty'? The very back of a tank (not the back deck, but behind the tank) is no place to ride! Dusty, bumpy, dirty, dangerous, lurches up and down, I'd think a basket was for stowage, not grunts. I'm going to take a look at some photos also, reply on Monday if this tread is still alive! Ron

LOL!

I hear you!

The information in Steve Zaloga's book, "Tank Battles of the Pacific War" claims that the Japanese used some "racks" on the back of Chi-Ha's to transport troops. I am assuming (I gotta be careful with that one!) that the "baskets" on the captured Stuarts are for the same thing. My reason is because you see so little extra gear hanging off a Japanese tank. Apparently they were not like all other tankers in this respect. Most pictures of Japanese tanks show no extra gear hanging on the outside, in or out of "baskets".

But, I could be wrong. It won't be the first time or the last!

The picture off the webpage is so bad, that to me it was worth it to go to the picture in the books. It's not of great quality either, but it sure is a lot better than the one off the web.

It's definitely some form of "basket". Whether for troops or gear, that will be left up to the modeler and the "experts". I wouldn't push the argument either way until I had either another photo showing otherwise, or some valid written documentation.

Either way. This is going to be a cool build Bean, so please post pictures when you are done!

QUOTE: Originally posted by Poniatowski QUOTE: Originally posted by Captain Caveman Flying planes into ships is dangerous too LOL! It certainly was!! I met a former Kamakazi (obviously didn't do his mission). He's now a Japanese National Treasure.. a ceramist. Gives one an idea of how much the war wasted in potential human talent. Ron. So, the basket thingie was REALLY for troops!!?? Can't type... laughing. I hope they didn't have anybody who drove like me back then!! LOL re: basket thingie !!!!!! i can just picture guys flying off at the first hard turn or sudden stop ! not LOL re: wasted talent... truly a tragedy of any conflict ! frosty Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 16, 2004 1:26 PM Off subject all over the place today, but if anybody is interested in looking up this artist, Yukio Yamamoto (not the movie maker) a good site is: http://www.newcenturycampaign.com/Schools/SchoolsList.cfm?c=41#About_Yukio I'll take a look at that Stuart photo this weekend too. Ron Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 16, 2004 1:17 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Captain Caveman Flying planes into ships is dangerous too LOL! It certainly was!! I met a former Kamakazi (obviously didn't do his mission). He's now a Japanese National Treasure.. a ceramist. Gives one an idea of how much the war wasted in potential human talent. Ron. So, the basket thingie was REALLY for troops!!?? Can't type... laughing. I hope they didn't have anybody who drove like me back then!! Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 16, 2004 10:43 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Poniatowski Interesting. Now you've gotten me curious also! Hey, why would they put infantry in baskets? Didn't trust them to hang onto the tank? Thought they might get nervous and get the tank 'dirty'? The very back of a tank (not the back deck, but behind the tank) is no place to ride! Dusty, bumpy, dirty, dangerous, lurches up and down, I'd think a basket was for stowage, not grunts. I'm going to take a look at some photos also, reply on Monday if this tread is still alive! Ron Flying planes into ships is dangerous too Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 16, 2004 9:37 AM Interesting. Now you've gotten me curious also! Hey, why would they put infantry in baskets? Didn't trust them to hang onto the tank? Thought they might get nervous and get the tank 'dirty'? The very back of a tank (not the back deck, but behind the tank) is no place to ride! Dusty, bumpy, dirty, dangerous, lurches up and down, I'd think a basket was for stowage, not grunts. I'm going to take a look at some photos also, reply on Monday if this tread is still alive! Ron Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Friday, January 16, 2004 6:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by latch66 Glad we could help Bean! What kit are you using for your model? The new Academy, or the old Tamiya? The Academy -honey- kit. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 15, 2004 6:49 AM Glad we could help Bean! What kit are you using for your model? The new Academy, or the old Tamiya? Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 15, 2004 3:13 AM Thanks for the info guys, I could also see a bit of a debate going on as well but regarding the "basket-thingy" I guess I'll go with Shermanfreak on this. The basket did look kinda' flimsy and may just be used for assorted knick knacks. hmm? I'm thinking maybe like large shopping carts? Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 9:14 PM ive got the Tank battles of the pacific war book here and on page 11 there is a better detailed photo and Latch 66 is right the basket is empty and the Type 97 on page 32 has a basket frame on the back and it says its for carrying infantry along during the attack and theres a colour plate of the M3 on page 33 calling the frame a luggage rack its a good book its armour at war series number 7004 Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:24 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by mamacat 811 sorry must disagree again (nothing personal) it is impossable that the light can take the same form and brightness even though the tanks are at different distances from the camera also in the whole picture the fourth tank down hase an empty set of tubing on the rear end. Not taking it personal Mamacat If you can, please go look at the same picture in either of the books I've mentioned. They are much better in photo quality than the picture off the web. And as a result you can see all the details much better. If you still disagree, hey no problem. You could be right. Don't sweat the small stuff. It's cool to disagree. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:17 PM sorry must disagree again (nothing personal) it is impossable that the light can take the same form and brightness even though the tanks are at different distances from the camera also in the whole picture the fourth tank down hase an empty set of tubing on the rear end. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 8:01 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by mamacat 811 i must dis agree with latch66 that may be what the steel tubing may be but the whitish object within the framing is in question. it has no open to and definetly is not steel or any other metal if it is it has been painted a bright color to show up white on a black and white photo. mamacat, The photo in the books show there is nothing in the racks. The "whitish object" is the sun on the ground behind the tank. In short, it's a trick of the light and the poor exposure of the picture. This does not show up in the photo from the net, but is clear in the photo in the book. Check the photo out in either "Stuart U.S. Light Tanks in Action" by Squadron or in "Tank Battles of the Pacific War" by Steve Zaloga. The photo is in both of these books. Check it out Bud. If you still feel that's not it, no problems. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:54 PM i must dis agree with latch66 that may be what the steel tubing may be but the whitish object within the framing is in question. it has no open to and definetly is not steel or any other metal if it is it has been painted a bright color to show up white on a black and white photo. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:36 PM I went to the "Library" and pulled out my reference. I've got the same picture just a little better quality. The "basket" is just that. An open metal basket. Of the four Stuarts visible in the picture, the basket is on three of them (We can't see if the fourth has it or not by the photo, but it probably does). A possibility is that they are used for a place for the infantry to stand when going into battle. This was a tactic used by the Japanese and several Japanese tanks had a rack on the back of their tanks for just that purpose. If it doesn't look sturdy enough for that, I wouldn't let that stop you. Some of the other ones I have seen on Chi-Ha tanks for that purpose look quite flimsy. But, they could just be your standard garden variety equipment rack. The other item is a road wheel. I hope this helps. Reply Edit Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:21 PM Scinse it seems to be on two of the tanks and on the one closest to the picture there seems to be a darker shade near to the bottom left of the "thing" it may be some sort of aux fuel tank... or not maybe it is just a basket. Reply Edit shermanfreak Member since January 2003 Posted by shermanfreak on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 3:47 PM I agrre about the contents of the blue box ... it does look like a spare roadwheel. As far as the red box goes .... wouldn't even venture a guess. It may be just a basket or box attached to the back to toss assorted knick knacks in. Might also be only on this one tank. Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert Reply Anonymous Member since November 2005 Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, January 14, 2004 7:07 AM The thing in the blue box looks like a spare wheel. And the red box... your guess is as good as mine. I have seen some pictures of the captured Stuarts and they did not have this basket. I have also seen one with the standard (Japanese) cammo paint.... looked quite good. Hope this helps Herr Gray Reply Edit JOIN OUR COMMUNITY! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login Register SEARCH FORUMS FREE NEWSLETTER SIGN UP By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy. 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