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Revell M48A2 Patton ARRIVED!!

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  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Revell M48A2 Patton ARRIVED!!
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Sunday, December 05, 2010 6:36 AM

Howdy folks!! I'm going to do something I haven't done for 30 years, and that's build something armored besides a battleship.

 

I have Revell/Monogram classic 1/35 scale Patton on the way, and would like some ideas on accessories to dress it up a little if y'all don't mind.

 

Jerry cans, tow cables, sand bags, anything that's appropriate for the time frame represented by the decals shown in the picture. Is there a "general accessory" set I can get? Or is there more in the kit than what is shown on the box? I know it comes with several figures which would be helpful to place in a diorama.

 

Any and all suggestions welcome! thanks so much

 

 

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, December 05, 2010 8:12 AM

The kit hails from the late 1950s and was a great kit for its time. It does suffer from age and not up to current standards. Many modern armor modelers update the kit by combining it with the solid Tamiya M48A3 kit. Tracks and sprockets are usually the first item to be replaced on this kit. AFV Club makes a set of tracks for the M48/60/88 series vehicles. Many modelers use these to update the current kits.

There is a Tamiya modern US equipment set made in the 80s, but it is OOP. The current one is too modern and includes the louvered CIP panels. You don't want that one.

This is the one you want to find somewhere. It is from the 1980s, but a lot of gear would still be interchangeable in the Vietnam era. The tank rounds would not be proper for the M48A2 though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MODERN-TANK-WEPONS-SET-/250734291419?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a60eda9db

  • Member since
    March, 2006
Posted by TD4438 on Monday, December 06, 2010 12:53 AM

I recently added this kit to the stash.I plan on loading up on aftermarket parts and giving it a killer (hopefully) paintjob.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, December 06, 2010 3:08 PM

some things you may want to consider:

File off the "steps"on the turret sides and scratch build the rails that belong there from stretched sprue, styrene or brass rod.

remove the molded on pioneer tools and replace them (and the jerry can) with ones from Academy's AFV Accessory sets. Also the packs in that set are more appropriate than the modern era ALICE packs in the Tamiya sets.

Drill out the bore of the main gun- it is molded solid shut

Add the dust cover for the mantlet.

It is a fun old kit that can be made to shine if you take the time.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June, 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Monday, December 06, 2010 7:01 PM

Be advised that that kit is 1/32 scale, not 1/35th, so buy accessories accordingly... If you use 1/35th scale parts, don't mix in any 1/32 stuff.. Stay with one scale..

If Revell stayed with the all the Monogram accessories, there are also some 1/32 scale Infantry included, and naturally, the TC and driver(a half-figure)...

Shep Paine did a fantasic diorama with that kit, even using the stock figures (with modifications)..

http://sheperdpaine.atspace.com/patton.htm

Stik's right, it IS a fun kit to build, goes together pretty easy, and will even roll on it's tracks if you want it to, and to make tracks on your dio base or display base...  This was the very first armor kit  I ever bilt, back around 1971 0r 72, and my very first diorama bild as well.. I never looked back at doing "shelf models" again, I only build dioramas now...  I'd build this one again in a heartbeat...

  • Member since
    October, 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 3:02 AM

It says on the box 1/35 scale. I just ordered one from ebay. i know there is an old one out there that is 1/32. But i think this is 1/35 scale. Or if it's not I am going to be pissed......I'm going to try and make it a M67 flame tank.

  • Member since
    June, 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 4:29 AM

Well, if Revell redesigned the entire mold-set, then maybe it is, but I highly doubt that happened.... The picture looks exactly like the old Monogram Patton, which was 1/32....  It's pretty obvious when set alongside the Tamiya M48... I know the catalog says 1/35th as well, but I doubt it..

http://www.revell.com/model-kits/military/85-7853.html

But don't let that hang you up..And 1/35th accessories look fine on it, as long as you don't mix after-market/parts box accessories with the kit accessories, or mix the included figures with any other 1/35th figures...   No need to be pizzed...

 It's still a fun build...

It's the same way with all the old Monogram armor kits, like the half-tracks, M-4 Sherman, T-34 Calliope, M-3 Lee, Grant, Panzers all, Weasel, Jeep, etc.... They were 1/32 as well..  But you won't notice it unless you put them right alonside other manufacturer's kits of the same subject in 1/35th..

Monogram was one of the kit manufacturers that want the standardized scale for armor to match the 1/32 aircraft market, but it never happened... The Japanese manufacturers, like Tamiya, didn't follow suit, and Monogram got buried by 1/35th...

  • Member since
    October, 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 4:54 AM

I know there was an old version from Monogram and that probably was 1/32. It had Big Pat as the name on the tank. I googled it and came up with a picture of an old box. It doesn't say scale but it does say their usual scale which if I am not mistaken was 1/32. The new version says love bug.

This is what they are selling now in 1/35 scale:

Product Description

1-35 Scale.Length: 9-7/8" Parts: 152. The M48A2 Patton tank was named for General George S. Patton, famous tank commander of World War II. It is a heavily armored, full-tracklaying combat vehicle with a 90 mm gun, a .30 cal. machine gun in combination mount and a .50 cal. machine gun in the commander's cupola. Opening and closing hatches, movable turret, cannon, machine gun and tank treads. Two crew members and six military figures. Decals with optional markings. Molded in olive drab with soft black treads. Skill level 2

That sounds right to me size wise for the chassis and gun barrel sticking out. If that's just the chassis then yes it is 1/32. But i would think when they say the length it would mean overall length.....right....right....yes...no....maybe.....maybe I wasted $20....LOL.

If it is just the old one in 1/32 which is possible, like I said I will be pissed and demand my money back from the vendor. or just use it for parts. Honestly I don't trust these companies  not to mentions some vendors, like Tankrats...oh did I mention one...sorry...LOL.

My idea was to make it either a M67A2 flame tank or really bash it with the soon to be realeased and in 1/32 M55 8" howitzer. If that is realeased I have special plans for that. I guess my goal is to model every vehicle used by US forces in Nam.

My gut says you're right though, my brain says it's 1/35.

  • Member since
    June, 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 5:12 AM

"The Love Bug" and the "Flower Power" decals for the turret and gun tube were on the 1970's re-issue of the White-box Monogram 1/32 Patton... I know that kit well...  I went to Revell's site to check, and the picture is bang-on for the Monogram kit, even though they themselves say it's 1/35th, I'm tellin' ya, it's 1/32... I'd bet my life on it..

But you didn't waste 20.00... Just because it's a Monogram kit doesn't make it bad... It builds up rather nice for it's age.. It'll build into an M67 same as any 1/35th scale would..

 

 

  • Member since
    October, 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 6:06 AM

I want to do dioramas so the scale is important. I hope it's 1/35 but I have the sinking feeling it's 1/32.

If it's 1/35 it's not jive, if it's 1/32 I'll use it for the sprue.......

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: Central Wisconsin
Posted by Spamicus on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 6:58 AM

I got one as a parts donator for back dating a Tamiya M48A3 to an M48A2GA2. The revell kit was 1/32, but the box said 1/35. The build went okay, but I had to do a lot more surgery on the rear deck parts I was swaping than I'd hoped for. The Revell kit is really old, but with some TLC it builds up just fine; fear not.

Steve

  • Member since
    June, 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 7:10 AM

BigDaddyBluesman

I want to do dioramas so the scale is important. I hope it's 1/35 but I have the sinking feeling it's 1/32.

If it's 1/35 it's not jive, if it's 1/32 I'll use it for the sprue.......

Used alone, with 1/35th scale figures and accessories, the difference in scales is NOT that important, except for those with that debilatating affliction called AMS (Advanced Modeling Syndrome)... It's pretty common among Rivet-Counters (Might even be genetic), not so much with normal modelers..  I don't think it's contagious though..

Whistling

Really, you CAN use 1/35th scale figures with a 1/32 scale kit in a diorama, I do it all the time, especially with aircraft and armor mixes... I even use 1/35th figures with 1/32 aircraft.. The guys just ain't all 6 feet tall..

The difference is NOT that pronounced unless you put a another M-48 in 1/35th on it alongside the 1/32 scale Patton ... 

Even if you mix the scales of vehicles, say a 1/35th Jeep, Duece, or APC, it'll be ok, I promise ya.. Just don't mix figures or weapons...  Use 1/35th figures and weapons, jerry cans, c-rat boxes, etc.. Don't use the acessories from the 1/32 scale kit.. I think the only ones that are separate are the Jerry cans anyway...  

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Burke, VA
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 9:42 AM

The Monogram M48A2 is and always has been 1/35.  Monogram relabeled it 1/32 in the 70's to "match" the scale of their other 1/32 armor kits.  It scales out pretty closed with the Tamiya 1/35 M48A3 and many of the more accurate parts off of it are interchangeable.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

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  • Member since
    June, 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 12:54 PM

One of 'em is wrong then Gino... I got 'em both, the Tamiya and the Mongram, and they AIN'T the same size... The hull of the Monogram tank is visibly bigger, even to the nekkid eye...

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:12 PM

Hans, you are wrong. Monogram originally produced kits in 1/35 scale, then switched to 1/32 scale to follow Airfix's nice but short line of armor. They produced a few more kits in 1/32 scale, mainly the Sherman, Grant/Lee and Panzers. Then they went back and relabeled their original 1/35 scale kits (Patton, US halftrack, M34, Weasel, etc.) as 1/32. Sort of like Airfix does with their 1/76 vs. "1/72" scale kits. same kits, different scales labeled based on what's popular.

The Patton was originally listed in 1958 as 1/35 scale. In 1972 it "became" 1/32 scale.

My reference is the Monogram book by Robert Reder, one of the original founders of the company. It is dated 2000.

The difference in actual size between the Tamiya M48A3 and the Monogram M48A2 is more a factor of the amount of accuracy used in 1958 vs 1978 (or whenever the Tamiya kit was designed). Even the newer Academy M48A5K kit has some scale issues when compared to the Tamiya kit. It's the same sized kit but they shrunk the tracks in order to get them to fit under the Korean armor side skirts.

  • Member since
    October, 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:16 PM

Is that the new issue or an older issue?

I think I ordered the new issue. I will let y'all know when I get it. Unless someone has purchased the latest issue we just don't know for sure, do we.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Burke, VA
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:47 PM

BigDaddyBluesman

Is that the new issue or an older issue?

I think I ordered the new issue....

They are the same kit.  It is a reissue of the old kit.  Everything is the same down to the decals.  The only new item is the box, which even has similar boxart to the older versions.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Tuesday, December 07, 2010 1:51 PM

BigDaddyBluesman

Is that the new issue or an older issue?

I think I ordered the new issue. I will let y'all know when I get it. Unless someone has purchased the latest issue we just don't know for sure, do we.

They're the same.  I recently picked up a re-issued one.  Built my first one back in 1962. 

I always remember it as being 1/35 scale.  I think Rob is on the right track that any difference has more to do with the accuracy of the original tooling than anything else.  A lot of older kits don't scale out accurately when you measure them.  

Mark 

 

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  • Member since
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  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:13 AM

Hans, you are wrong. Monogram originally produced kits in 1/35 scale, then switched to 1/32 scale to follow Airfix's nice but short line of armor. ...

T...he difference in actual size between the Tamiya M48A3 and the Monogram M48A2 is more a factor of the amount of accuracy used in 1958 vs 1978 (or whenever the Tamiya kit was designed). Even the newer Academy M48A5K kit has some scale issues when compared to the Tamiya kit.... 

Ok, I think you're splitting hairs, Rob... IF the Monogram Patton is 1/35th scale, and the Tamiya M48 is 1/35th scale, then WHY is the Monogram hull larger all around than the Tamiya hull? (I can't check the turrets because the Monogram turret is long gone.. I built the tank first, then a few months later, tore it down to make a CEV out of it, then a few months after that, tore THAT down for an AVLB project..)

Scale fidelity and Robert Reder be damned , which tank scales out to an ACCURATE 1/35th scale model?  Because I can only go by what's written on the boxes, and what I've see before me with both hulls... 

Bottom line is that when I'm looking at both, the Monogram hull is longer, wider, and higher than the Tamiya hull... That tells me ONE of 'em is wrong, if 1/35th is the scale for both. 

Wish I still had the figures of the Mongram TC/driver to compare with the Tamiya TC/driver...

 

 

 

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:55 AM

Hans von Hammer

Bottom line is that when I'm looking at both, the Monogram hull is longer, wider, and higher than the Tamiya hull... That tells me ONE of 'em is wrong, if 1/35th is the scale for both. 

It may be that BOTH of them are wrong.   ;)

My curiosity may inspire me to dig my old Monogram kit out of the stash this evening and do some measuring...

Mark

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  • Member since
    October, 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:11 AM

Well know you got me thinking that I am going to find a site that has some dimensions of the M48 and see if indeed which is right if any. I know by looking at it that the Tamiya kit's turret is short and squat and has a funny angle.

As for being too high, I'm not sure. Doog did make it lower and it does look right. He also did the turret mod and that helped too. But it's very hard to deal with two dimensions. Adding a third dimension helps. having it in you hand with a rule and some numbers will help. I think it's possible the Tamiya hull is too thin.

I drove a bunch of m113s. ITVs and 577 vehicles and the Tamiya stuff is close but not right. It's a feel thing I did not do the measurements. Again it seems the hull is too thing here to. But not by much. It could just be perception and not reality,

The human mind is notorious for distorting reality. Having the mind interpret scale might be one of those things. Just because it's correct in scale does not mean our mind sees it correctly.

I have an Academy M60 dozer blade(the M728 conversion kit is coming), the tamiya M48 and a monogram M48 coming off ebay. So i think I will get all those hulls out with a rule and calipers and see if I can find some dimensions(I think there are a few websites with them) and do some home work.

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 12:27 PM

I drive by a M60 parked in front of the VFW hall everyday on the way to work.  Maybe I'll stick my tape measure in the car one day this week.  ;)

Mark

 

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  • Member since
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  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 1:33 PM

I've got the old 1970s issue of the Monogram kit handy, but I'll have to dig to get a Tamiya M48A3. I've got the Sgt York handy and can compare the hulls to one another when I get home from work.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 3:24 PM

Hans von Hammer

Wish I still had the figures of the Monogram TC/driver to compare with the Tamiya TC/driver... 

 

I still have them. The Monogram figures are nowhere near the size of their 1/32 figures of their later armor releases... They look more 1/35 to the Mk.I eyeball.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 3:56 PM

OK, I have too much time on my hands before work. Don't laugh too hard at the quality of the builds as they are all over 25 years ago and were hand painted... No airbrush in those days... The green Monogram M48 was built OOB, as was the Tamiya. The Sand M48 had some mods done- replaced cupola, added handholds from stretched sprue on turret, up gunned to 105mm main gun.

Tamiya M48 TC along with other Tamiya TC figure and Monogram TC

Tamiya M48 between Monogram M48s. The Tamiya is just a bit shorter lengthwise...

Tamiya and Monogram M48s side to side and back to back.Tamiya has a taller profile

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    October, 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:10 PM

Same scale....

Did y'all know Academy made one too.....a M48A3.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 4:17 PM

Yes, the Academy M48A3 is a "rebox" of the Tamiya kit, and their A5 is a modified "rebox"(read pirated Pirate)...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:10 PM

Hans, I don't think I'm splitting hairs, I know I'm right. If it was 1/32 scale, it would be noticeably larger in most dimensions to the Tamiya kit.

I've dug out my unbuilt circa 1972 1/35 scale (clearly stated on the box top) Monogram M48A2 courtesy of eBay and a partially built Tamiya M48A3 kit that I was updating with Verlinden's M48-M60 Upddate set once upon a time. Suffice it to say, I could mate the Monogram upper hull (about the only real thing needed to make it an "A2") to the lower hull of the Tamiya A3 with no difficulty. The turret sizes are virtually identical as well. The taller height of the Tamiya M48A3 is a fairly well known issue and a relatively easy (but a pain it the butt) fix by adjusting the road wheel arms so the tank sits lower. Gino did a good WIP about this some time ago.

After looking over the Monogram kit, it's not bad for its age. I can't find a date on the actual plastic, but the instructions I have are copyrighted 1966 & 1972 and comes with the one page Shep Paine diorama insert (those were the best, weren't they?). If I were to make an M48A2, I'd definitely go the conventional route and mate the Monogram upper hull to the Tamiya lower hull and add the Monogram cupola to the Tamiya turret along with other details.

I do remember having my dad help me build the "Love Bug" kit when I was young. It was probably 1972, when I was 8, because I recall asking my dad why our tank did not look like the one on the box insert. I know it was a veteran of the Sand Box Wars and I remember my dad using some sort of gray epoxy to reattach the road wheel arms when they would break off.

As far as the pirated Academy kit, I remember it well and built it and painted it to look like the M48A5 I crewed as a kid. It came in a white box with a photo of the built kit complete with hull snorkel. It was not built as well as Stikpusher's kits (nice job on those for a quarter century ago). That pirated version still exists as the Ironside M67 flametank kit.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Wednesday, December 08, 2010 5:15 PM

RedCorvette

I drive by a M60 parked in front of the VFW hall everyday on the way to work.  Maybe I'll stick my tape measure in the car one day this week.  ;)

Mark

 

It wouldn't do much good to the arguement, the M60 hull is different from the M48 hull so the measurements wouldn't be good basis for comparison.

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Thursday, December 09, 2010 1:57 AM

Howdy folks the machine is here!!!! I found a copyright date in the plastic, it's on the bottom of the turret housing, and it says 1966.

 

That reminds me I DID build one of these before. Way back in '76. I had plum forgot. But anyways, this new release has both American and Israeli versions options.

 

Stikpusher, do you have any kit numbers for the AFV sets you mentioned? What would I need to do, If anything, if I decide to build the Israeli version as far as goodies to carry on the tank? Would the figures in the kit be wrong for Israeli soldiers? Sorry about the dumb-&*$ questions, I've been a car modeler and a few aircraft builder all my life.

 

Thanks SO much folks!Bow Down

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

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