a quick question about a kleine.....

I did a quick scan on the Bundesarchiv but only found pictures from the russian front.

Look for Moosdorf (the name of the photographer) if you want more references to this unit.


Bild 101I-265-0006-31 Russland Befehlspanzer 1

Very Best Regards
Johan

Thanks Johan. I've seen this picture before but am not seeing many pics of this tank in desert colour scheme let alone the antenna version. Perhaps it never was.

It (Panzer 1 commander version) was used early on during the invasion of Czech. and Polland and during the phony war. But it was found to have little protection from most allied guns at that time especially with the high outline. When Germany moved into North Africa to bolster Italy, I don't know if they were among the vehicles shipped to that theatre. I believe there are pictures of the vehicle in Squadrons German Panzer I, II & III (red, yellow & green) books.

I have seen at least one picture of these surviving tanks with the desert paint scheme.

Another question, in the instructions it calls for field grey. Is this lighter than the typical German grey?

Thanks

Ignore the directions to use "field gray"! Field gray is actually a greenish color and definitely not the same as Panzer Schwarzgrau (Dark gray).

As for use in N. Africa, some did get sent along with other units equipped with Pz I and II in the early stages of the campaign (it began in Feb '41). Frame antenna was still being used up until Barbarossa as the pic in the above post indicates so there's no reason why you couldn't do one with the frame antenna in N. Africa as well but my inclination would be against it since those units received Tropen modifications and were therfore "different" from the ones used in Russia.

somefella

I have seen at least one picture of these surviving tanks with the desert paint scheme.

Another question, in the instructions it calls for field grey. Is this lighter than the typical German grey?

Thanks

This probably refers to the Gunze line of paints. Gunze makes two Field Gray shades. One is dark and is essentially "Panzer gray", and the other is the lighter Gray Green shade associated with German uniforms. But as stated above, just use whatever shade you prefer of Panzer Gray.

Thanks Stikpusher and WBill. I was having a hard decision over which version to build. Maybe I'll just go with the antenna version as it is unique. I thought Tamiyas German Grey was a good colour for many German AFVs. Do you think this would work for this tank or is it a little dark?

I haven't actually started the kit, just opened the box and checked out the sprues. What a cute little thing this is. It would look almost out of scale along side a 1/35 KV-2! I'm afraid the tracks may take close to a generation  to complete.  I will soon be a master of patience.

Tamiya's German Gray is a good choice. Early DAK stuff arrived in Tripoli in Panzer Gray in Feb 1941. I think the main difference in the Topen versions would be cooling vents added on the engine deck. And the initial stuff sent to Africa may or may not have had those mods.

Somefella?
The frame antenna was in extensive use on all early command vehicles, not realy sure what radio types; FUG 7, 8 and so forth were supported,
but the antenna design had many advatages.
So it is not a question of where the tank was deployed but in what role.
With the lack off evidence this has ever been a command vehicle in the DAK forces i guess you have a no go.
Look 2 years back at Poland.

As allways
Boarder

The frame antenna was typically used when they needed greater range per PanzerTracts 1-2 and wasn't tied to a specific set of radio gear as the housings inside the Kleines were designed for a specific gear arrangement consisting of the Fu 6 (transmit/receive) and Fu 2 (receive only).

The order to the factories for the Kleines to receive Tropen mods (a batch of 11) that went to N. Africa was placed actually in Dec '40 (remember that all Pz I production was done long before this so they weren't building new ones) for machines already in service and they specifically targeted vehicles that were in the second half of the 5 series production run and beyond because they had larger coolant capacity for the engines vs. earlier production models. (This is interesting due to the timing as it was clear even in 1940 that the need to operate in hot climates was real and steps were being taken in advance by the Waffenamt). All pics I've found of DAK Kleines show it only with the standard 4-6km range rod antenna and not the frame get-up, so it's possible that with the Tropen mods and/or power needs for the larger antenna didn't work for the desert environment and so were not used. Some were captured by the Brits and eventually wound up on display in the UK. The captured vehicles sported the 2-tone Tropen scheme appropriate for early war period FWIW if you're looking for an even further interesting paint scenario.  

A few related commo points: Antennas do not require more power to increase range. It is the radio set itself that would do that. Higher wattage output by the transmitter will increase signal range. A standard whip antenna is the least efficient type out there. The later "star" antennas used on German command vehicles increased efficiency over a standard whip without greatly increasing size or being so visible as the frame antenna. The closer an antenna is in physical size to the size of the actual radio wave, which varies by frequency- lower frequency=larger wavelength, the more efficient an antenna is at transmitting its signal and the greater range that can be achieved from said antenna off a radio putting out the same wattage of signal. I can tell you from firsthand experience that boosting wattage on a radio in a vehicle will increase the heat thrown off by the radio system inside the vehicle, and in a hot climate make the interior quite hot very quickly.

Thanks guys, I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts.

I have another question so I thought I'd post it here. This one isn't so quick......

As some of you who have built this kit will know, it has a number of options. Most of which ( I presume) depends on wether the early version or later version is being built. Guess what?......That's right.... I have no idea!! Sooo.,..I'm hoping someone or some knowledgable persons can help me out. I've decided to build the "frame antenna version" and I assume this would probably be Poland 1939. I would very much appreciate any guidance as to what idler wheel to use, decals etc. Being still somewhat new to armour building and being my first Dragon kit I don't even know what some of the parts are as there aren't any labels. Thanks for any help.

That's not an easy question to answer all by itself...it has to do largely with modifications and changes that were done to the Pz I-B chassis post-production as well as modifications that were specific to the kleine Befehls version during its service life. To write it all out for you would take, well, a small book (which is why the guys over at Panzer Tracts produced one, Vol 1-2 that deals primarily with these!). The kit is offered as a 3-in-1 and the instructions do give you some clues along the way by designating which steps you should follow depending on which of the 3 versions you are building and outlining the parts you need to go with that version, that's your best bet as a starting point. If you deviate off that path, then you're on your own to research the specific parts/items that should or shouldn't belong to them.

Thanks, Bill.I was afraid my question wasn't an easy one to answer. The instruction do indeed tell you what parts go with what version but there are some options along the way. Right at the beginning there is an option for the idler wheel for example. I understand one option is for the earlier version and the other for a later version. But it doesn't say which is which. There is also a bar along the bottom rear hull that is an option. I'm not even sure what it is!. Then there is two different tail lights.I can figure out a couple of these answers I think by just looking at a few pics I have. These are small details but you know if you do it wrong people will be sure to point it out.

Ok, now we are getting somewhere in terms of specifics. Hopefully this will help.  

Since DML used their existing Pz I molds for the Kleine chassis, many of the options you are presented with depend on the time in question you are depicting the chassis. The idler choice deals with the presence of small reinforcing ribs and you should use part C15 as this was the most commonly seen idler type (although you could use either one truthfully) for the best accuracy IMHO.

The bar along the rear of the hull was a feature added in 1937 in the middle of the production run of the 5 La Series to prevent cracking on the idler mounts due to stress/strain and is also something commonly seen for WW2 variant vehicles, so I would recommend adding that too unless you're depicting a specific vehicle that didn't have it.

On the issue of the tail light, you should fit the rectangular light (D7) if you're depicting a vehicle that saw service after the Battle of France. These lights were fitted in the field starting after June 1939 but not all vehicles got them right away due to the pace of war in relation to the Polish campaign and subsequent Western fighting but would be reasonable to expect they would have received them later on in the "lull" between the fall of France and Barbarossa (again depending on your time period you're showing). If you don't want to fit that light, your best bet is to fit B11 or D10 as you prefer...D8 was a type not introduced until mid-1943 so that's way out there for your needs I think.

HTH!

Thanks kindly Bill. That is a great help and I appreciate your time. Once I dig into it (finishing a couple other projects) I may have another question or two.

Actually, you may or may not know the answer to this question. I was thinking of doing something a little different for this build. I was was thinking what if this Kleine were captured by the Poles during the 1939 invasion. I would show this by somehow making a Polish flag to be draped over part of the tank. I've never seen this but possible?

Polish campaign was very short (lasted just over 1 month in total) and the Poles didn't have a shortage of their own gear...and a captured kleine Befehls wouldn't have been of much use to them as a fighting vehicle or for much else...but it's not outside the realm of possibility I suppose. A bit of a stretch IMHO though.

Glad to be of service, if you have any other specific questions, will do my best to answer if I can.

Thanks Bill, that makes sense. I suppose they wouldn't of had much use for a weak armoured command vehicle. I could see them refitting a captured tank but if they didn't need it I guess there would have been no use right? As small and harmless as it was maybe they could have given it to the kids to play with.