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Albino Pz38T?

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  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Albino Pz38T?
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, March 14, 2011 3:10 AM

Been a long but (I thought) fun thread on early war panzer colors. While going through a bunch of photos to help me find places to stick decals on a model that's half rivets, I stumbled on a terrific photo of a pair of Pz38Ts of the 8th Panzer Division crossing the Maas Valley in May 1940. I know that the Czech weapons took a while to get into the proper scheme of things, but this is two years plus after Germany occupied Bohemia and these tanks were being produced for the Wehrmacht. I know photos can play tricks, but I just don't see calling either of these tanks Panzergrau. I've seen a very few pictures where dust made parts of a vehicle look this light, but the color seems quite consistent on both vehicles. Maybe dust, but unless the photo is mislabeled, we're talking France in springtime, not Libya or the Ukraine. Any ideas?

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Central Wisconsin
Posted by Spamicus on Monday, March 14, 2011 8:28 AM

If I were to bet on it I'd say they're dark gray faded by the sun and covered with a layer of dust. Particularly if we assume the "K" is white. It's a great photo with plenty of detail in evidence.

Steve

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Cat Central, NC
Posted by Bronto on Monday, March 14, 2011 9:24 AM

They are simply dust covered panzer gray.

  • Member since
    April 2015
Posted by spadx111 on Monday, March 14, 2011 10:20 AM

nice post good answersYes

Ron

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Monday, March 14, 2011 2:52 PM

Give-away is on the front hull nose plate...you can see a "less dusty" spot that is the true Panzer Gray. Also note the contrast on the leather head-pad of the radio operator's hatch. That, combined with the head-on glare of the sun/lighting and you have a very dusty Pz38t. The fact that the overall shade of the vehicle matchs what you see on the tracks confirms it IMHO. Wink

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Monday, March 14, 2011 6:46 PM

Consider this an extreme example of how the camera can play tricks. I could find nothing else like them - I would have guessed all the other photos to be dust over some other color. (The great majority are clearly dark.)  What they really look like are photos of AFVs in the DAK.  But I tried. I looked my photos from Doyle and Culver and have included the only two I could find that show anything like the effect displayed by the PZ38Ts in France.  (Both unfortunately are from the rear) The towed gun is simply labeled "early war" and was put in Culver's book to display the effect of dust. The armored car in column is going up the Moscow Road somewhere in 1941. I'm an old farm boy and can't imagine conditions in Russia in dead summer resembling at all those of France in May. (The 38Ts also show clean treads which I can't figure. A ten ton tracked vehicle going over cultivated land of the type you'd find in France in early May - think parts of Wisconsin or southeast Minnesota - should be picking up that sticky soil. And the winter that year had been particularly cold and snowy. Maybe there'd been a dry spell - Frenchmen later remembered spring of 1940 as being particularly beautiful. Good flying weather for the LW too.) A few other things of interest. If you note the stain on the 38T on the lower front, you'll find one very like it in exactly the same place on the second vehicle. Crew must have been chucking stuff out there. Also, there are no people in the 38T photo. Not sure whether the tanks are going into action of if they're at rest. On the Russian column photo, note the road. In 1941 Russia, that's what passed for a decent road. Unless the ground was perfect for off-road that must have been a logistic headache of the first order. No wonder mud stopped the war in the East twice a year. Lastly I did include an albino Tiger from Culver's book. The year isn't mentioned, but Culver notes the tank was painted white. No stinking whitewash for that commander's brute. Make a neat model.

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

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