M48 Patton Question

I think they have rubber tires. Prime portal has a clear photo of an M48A2GA2 and they're rubber. Of course that model is highly upgraded, but it think the U.S. models also had rubber tires.

It's rubber. While this is a shot of an M88A1, the M48 used the same suspension components as the M88 and M60.

The use of steel in the place of rubber on road wheels and return rollers was caused by wartime shortages of rubber in German industry.  So far, the U.S. has not had that problem.  I'm unaware of any U.S. armored vehicles, past or present, that use steel tires on their running gear.

The Abrams series has plain steel returnrollers and if my mind isn't failing me (a common occurance these days) I believe Sheridans had plain steel idler wheels.

Spamicus

The Abrams series has plain steel returnrollers and if my mind isn't failing me (a common occurance these days) I believe Sheridans had plain steel idler wheels.

Hah!  Participation in these forums is an on-going education.  I've no experience with the M-551 and the Abrams began to fielded in the Texas Guard after I left the DIVARTY for State HQ.

Still believe I'm correct about WWII German move toward steel tires on their tanks.  Doesn't really explain why the Soviets used them on later models of the T-34.  I appreciate the eduction.  Thanks!

The M113 family series of vehicles had a steel idler as well. I am fairly cetrain that the M26/M46/M47/M48/M60 evolution of tanks all kept the rubber rimmed return rollers.

stikpusher

The M113 family series of vehicles had a steel idler as well. I am fairly cetrain that the M26/M46/M47/M48/M60 evolution of tanks all kept the rubber rimmed return rollers.

Well, yeah.  The 113/577 had rubber on the road wheels, but the sprocket and the idler were all metal.  My comments refered to the return rollers and the road wheels.

Rob Gronovius

It's rubber. While this is a shot of an M88A1, the M48 used the same suspension components as the M88 and M60.

M-88's are cool!  When I was with a mech infantry battalion, we were issued M-88's rather than M-578's because we had an attached M-60A5 company.  Its an amazing piece of machinary.

MAJ Mike

Still believe I'm correct about WWII German move toward steel tires on their tanks.  Doesn't really explain why the Soviets used them on later models of the T-34.  I appreciate the eduction.  Thanks!

The Soviets did not use all steel road wheels on later models of the T-34. Especially the T-34/85, I have looked thru scores of photos trying to find them but have not been able to. 1941/42 were the critical years for rubber shortage for them. But the all steel road wheels caused bad vibration problems and by late 1942 a mix of rubber rimmed and steel rimmed roadwheels was the norm. By 1944 new production T-34s had all rubber rimmed road wheels again although rim types varied, solid or spoked with lightening holes. Now their Heavy tanks such as the IS series continued to use steel rimmed wheels, but a SWAG says that they did not have the speed for the vibrations to become an issue as on the T-34.

stikpusher

MAJ Mike:

Still believe I'm correct about WWII German move toward steel tires on their tanks.  Doesn't really explain why the Soviets used them on later models of the T-34.  I appreciate the eduction.  Thanks!

 

The Soviets did not use all steel road wheels on later models of the T-34. Especially the T-34/85, I have looked thru scores of photos trying to find them but have not been able to. 1941/42 were the critical years for rubber shortage for them. But the all steel road wheels caused bad vibration problems and by late 1942 a mix of rubber rimmed and steel rimmed roadwheels was the norm. By 1944 new production T-34s had all rubber rimmed road wheels again although rim types varied, solid or spoked with lightening holes. Now their Heavy tanks such as the IS series continued to use steel rimmed wheels, but a SWAG says that they did not have the speed for the vibrations to become an issue as on the T-34.

Makes perfect sense.  Lurking through these forms has caused me to consider many details that I ignored in the past.  Like I said earlier, I appreciate the on-going education!

Spamicus

The Abrams series has plain steel returnrollers and if my mind isn't failing me (a common occurance these days) I believe Sheridans had plain steel idler wheels.

Yes, you are correct, the M1/A1/A2 Abrams series tanks had steel return rollers.

One of the things you'll learn about military modeling forums is if you don't know the answer, don't guess. More than likely someone here knows the answer or knows where to look to find the answer and post the correct question. Guessing just leads to bad info floating around (if you guess wrong).

I generally stick to my lane, modern US armor. I've been hanging around it since 1983 and will be left here at Knox after the last of the armor training moves to Benning this year.

Heh!  DATs at Benning!

Rob Gronovius

It's rubber. While this is a shot of an M88A1, the M48 used the same suspension components as the M88 and M60.

Rob Gronovius

It's rubber. While this is a shot of an M88A1, the M48 used the same suspension components as the M88 and M60.

And look at that overspray done by the workers at Anniston Army Depot. Definitely not Bronze Medal work.

I know this is off topic for this thread, but Rob do you know if the Patton Museum is moving or staying?

Spamicus

I know this is off topic for this thread, but Rob do you know if the Patton Museum is moving or staying?

This depends on your definition of the Patton Museum. If you think of it as the Patton Museum of Cavalry and Armor, no, it has already moved and what's left is a shadow of its former self with only a handful of armor vehicles left outside and virtually nothing left armor-wise inside. Post-wide, there are maybe a half dozen display tanks around the installation, mainly gate guards at the three entry gates with a few buildings that still have a tank or AFV in front.

The US Army's Cavalry and Armor Museum has moved to Benning. The Patton Museum, showcasing the life and career of GEN Patton and well as a history of the installation, remains. It's basically the lobby, gift shop and that one room dedicated to Patton that had his command truck and his Cadillac staff car. The rest of the museum is closed for renovation will they rip the displays out and truck them off to Georgia.