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M48A3 for Hue diorama

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  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Thursday, May 19, 2011 7:49 PM

For those who are into Vietnam modeling this is a really good video of all the things I am incorporating into my Battle for Hue diorama, or trying to.

http://www.criticalpast.com/video/65675045888_United-States-troopers_Tet-Offensive_mechanical-mules_damaged-buildings

M48A3, Mule and weapons, soldiers running around all over the place and confusion. I'm trying to capture it all. I should post some pictures soon, I hope the ideas that were discussed here will make those pictures a better quality then the ones I did.

It's a short video but kind of says it all.

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Friday, May 13, 2011 8:36 PM

I remember we sang that all that time when we went though the tanker barracks to annoy them.

I hated that, cleaning the tracks after we just came back from the field. You're tired, dirty, smelly and everything is covered in mud and dirt and all you want to do is sleep. Yet you have to clean everything then start CQ duty, guard duty, doody duty.......errrrr...I JUST WANT TO SLEEP!!!!!!.......Big Smile.....it was the new army and we were training to fight 24 hours with all the new night vision gear. They took away our Black berets and tanker boots.......Sad

I was told the new, new army is different. My friend at Ft. Hood says there is a massage therapist you can go to. Well if it's for our troops who came home from combat give them anything that can help them.

The only therapy we had was PT.

The M113A2 was a lot better track. Did it throw tracks as much as the A1? That was the big thing in the field we had to be careful of. I read in Nam they did it a lot.  But nothing was as bad as the M551, a hit from a mine or RPG and you were molten aluminum.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, May 13, 2011 7:06 PM

Yes, I am stationed at Fort Knox. I am wrapping up my 24th yr of active duty and will retire 1 July with almost 28 years of military service. I was a combat engineer vehicle crewman in the Guard for 4 yrs while in college but was commissioned as an active duty armor officer. In addition to the CEV, I also trained on the AVLB and M113A2 as an engineer. My first tank was an M48A5 and my first tank platoon was equipped with M60A3TTS. I've commanded almost all variants of Abrams tanks except for the M1A2SEP and M1A1-D.

I know the cadence you recall.

Yes, baked on mud is tough to removed. It's akin to concrete and hardens in all the nooks and crannies. I've had to prep a battalion's worth of tanks, APCs and trucks for return to the states from overseas. The agricultural agency (I forget the acronym) goes through the tank with a fine toothed comb to make sure we didn't have any caked on mud anywhere that may have housed some invasive insect larva species, harmful plant seed or whatnot.

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Friday, May 13, 2011 6:53 PM

Tanks Pawel....get it tanks...ha ha....ya gotta keep a sense of humor man!!!!!!!!

Rob you live in Ft. Knox? At the Armor school or something? Are you in the military or did you drive Armor? It's a good analogy except for that blob of mud that came up and almost hit me in the face driving a M577...Smile. To this day I still remember some things about Ft Knox. My favorite memory was marching by a female captain singing a somewhat risqué tune about Eskimo female organs being mighty cold. I don't know what I've been told.....I can't remember the rest of that cadence.

Once the sun starts baking the mud it turns to a fine powder and leaves blotches of sand color on the armor. The M48 was cast and very rough, that means that the surface had ruts and crevices that the mud and dried mud would cling into.

I do have to even out some of the mud color wise and make it more random. Back to the pictures and video.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, May 13, 2011 6:23 PM

Well, that sounds pretty bad... But you don't give up, I respect that.

I checked up your camera on the internet - OK, it's old, but a good make, so I say it'll do. My tip would be to use minimum zoom and get the camera close to your model - that should produce best results.

I also find the M48A3 fascinating, I even build one (although in 1:72) right now - maybe you noticed it in the Armor forums. If you'd like to look my web page up: www.vietnam.net.pl - you'll find there pictures and build reports of my models of the M48A3, M151A1 a M274 (even have a quad 50 - look under exhibits).

Good luck with your dio, have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, May 13, 2011 6:11 PM

Here's a tip when trying to determine where the mud on a tank should go. Think of the tank in the mud as you would a boat going slowly through water. Where the boat would wet, the tank would be muddy.

You don't want the boat to look like someone threw water ballons on the deck or pilot house but have a dry hull and you don't want the tank to look like someone threw mud balls at a few random spots.

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Friday, May 13, 2011 5:56 PM

It's an old HP 635 I used to take pictures of a lot of stuff for Ebay. I was into model building about 10 years ago or so and wanted to do what I am doing now, I never got to developed my skills though. I was into aircraft for some reason. I had a nice kit selection all in 1/72 and sold it off because my health was so bad I could not do models. My health improved a bit and was actually building guitars and amplifiers since I have played music for many years, I sold a lot of that to get money to make my new model purchases. But again my health got worse this time it's permanent because it's a degenerative back condition that has been dogging me for many years. So I am NOT going to get better this time......I can no longer build amps and guitars, that is way too much strain for me.

As for the Nam mud, yes it has to be fixed a bit. BUT....in reality like I mentioned on Redleg's M108 there are what I have identified as 5 different levels of Nam earth. I have been working on recreated that.

Beach sand, Red clay, wet earth, dry earth and damp earth, they are all different colors and could be at any one time on a vehicle. I would think a lot of the SP artillery were in the highlands and that's were you had the red clay, it was a really cool color of the deep red that is striking against the green vehicle. But you don't get that in the low lands, especially a place like Hue which was a city bordering the Perfume River. If you watch the movie Full Metal Jacket the second half of the movie is about Hue. It was mostly that dry almost sand from a beach but did turn red when wet or damp. Not like the clay though.

First we have to look at the time during the Hue battle took place. It was the end of the rainy season, the sun would start to bake the moist red earth into a tan color. Then it would rain again and the red would come back. So you had 3 basic colors all inside the same mud pack, the original red mud, the dry mud and the dry mud getting wet again from the humidity. That is the correct Nam earth color for that place and time. I just have to make it more random and redder in some places. Also the heat from the road wheels will dry it out quickly there. This I know because I drove Armor in mud. I was in the 1/11th ACR Fulda Germany. The vehicles also looked darker because of the humidity, it would make the more dull looking USMC green color a darker color and more shiny.

I am going to try the idea of getting the camera on something solid and see how it comes out and with better light sources. Right now my back is in bad shape. I had a doctor's appointment for an eye test, I'm also a diabetic. Just bending over to put my head in those machines did aggravate my back and I am suffering in pain from it. It will take a few days to get over it. I can't even begin to explain what those idiots in the hospital did to make my back worse. My left side was numb for a while.

It's hard to do the models, I can only do a little at a time. So learning the techniques is one thing, then making the ergonomics of the work not to exacerbate the spinal issues is another consideration. This makes everything complex, nothing is easy to do. I am trying to make everything as easy as possible without giving up ANY quality of work.

This has become my life's passion. Maybe that's why I centered on the Vietnam war and mostly Armor since I was in an armor unit and drove a lot of the vehicles they used then. I even carried an M3 grease gun when I was in Headquarters troop. It doesn't look like you would think and most of them looked different. If I went into battle I would have preferred that over the M16 which I did not like at all. The M60 was a heavy beast and so was the M203, nobody wanted to carry those. I liked my M3, that was issue to M577 drivers.

I did exhaustive research on M48 tanks, the variations and mods done in theater are mind boggling. 2 different lights, 2 different muzzle breaks, 2 different cupolas, 2 different cupola hatches, M48A3 most common and the M48A2 which it replaced came back later because we ran out of A3s. Many different ways to mount the 50 cal and many tanks kept them inside the cupola. Many tanks mounted an extra 50 cal in front of the loaders hatch or an M60, one even had a mini gun there but they made the crew take it off, some mounted an M60 for the driver, also on M113s I have seen that. I even read a book Tank Sargent, the writer said when the platoon got their M48A3 dozer tank brand new from the states to replace the one destroyed it had an M60 cupola, that was a good read.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, May 13, 2011 5:04 PM

Howdy Noah,

sorry to hear about your health problems. From what I see in the pictures, I like the weathering of the turret a lot, but I don't like the light colored mud on the fender and the running gear - the contrast is too big for my taste.

Now about the photos - what camera model are you using? Wanna bet we together can set up the camera you already have to get usable pictures? Here are my tips for you:

1 - most important - lighting. Your best bet would be to place the model so that it is lit by the light entering throug the window. The camera would have to be placed between the light source (the window) and the model.

2 - zoom. Does your camera have the macro mode? If so - turn it on. If not - don't worry, it isn't critical. You just have to get the camera further away from the model. There's a minimal distance, at which every camera can focus. Please find that distance experimentally and add a few inches, there you have it.

3 - movement. The fact, that you are taking a picture of an object that doesn't move, makes your task relatively easy. Even if your light is weak, the camera will compensate for it, by lengthening the exposition time - the time the light is "taken" by the camera. If during this time you move the camera (for example shake it slightly), the pictures will be blurry. That's why it's best, to put the camera on a tripod (I got mine for like 15 $). But if you dont have one, you can always jury-rig a camera stand using books, boxes and the likes. When you already have that, it's good to use the feature (dang, I don't know the name in English) people use to take pictures of themselves - press the button and the picture will be taken in ten seconds. Well this time can be used to take your hands off the camera. Then the camera can lay still and take the photo absolutely motionless. Now it has the time, the correct distance and enough light - I say if it's in good working order, the photo should be sharp. And if it is, you can then enlarge it's portion on your PC to get detail shots - almost like having a macro feature in your cam.

Now if my tips work for you, you can save a lot of money for a new cam and buy a tripod - a very useful thingy!

Hope it helps, have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Friday, May 13, 2011 2:45 PM

BigDaddy,

Sorry to hear about your health problems.

Nothing in life matters more than your health, I sincerely wish you better luck with your health. 

I have asthma & allergies. Nothing severe yet now and then I get attacks to the point each breath is a effort. When you worry about the next breath it really grounds a person to realize what matters most.

You have came to the right place to meet new friends with the hobby in common. People here are good natured & helpful. Who knows maybe some live in your area.

Take care & glad to meet you!

Jason

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Friday, May 13, 2011 1:13 PM

I wish I could go on a vacation, I'm totally disabled and am trying to get a wheelchair from my HMO. Great health care in the USA.........NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My doctor sent me to the hospital a few weeks back to get emergency surgery and the hospital gave me some medication and sent me home. I had a kidney stone stuck in the tube between my kidney and bladder called the utterer and was bleeding internally. I passed the stone the day before the newly scheduled surgery was set to be done. But my disabled is spinal and I'm totally housebound, the models are all I can do for recreation.

It looks like I may never be able to set up an area and take pictures. It might just be too much for me to do and I do not have any friends that can help. It seems that as your medical issues become worse your so called friends disappear, even life long ones.

That's why when I say I appreciate your help here I mean it sincerely.

  • Member since
    January 2010
Posted by CrashTestDummy on Friday, May 13, 2011 12:58 PM

SuppressionFire
<SNIP>

 

 

Agreed the Cannon is a excellent camera. I use the SD 1200. I find its best NOT to use the zoom feature and just get close in. This camera can almost touch the subject! Long as the green focus box appears its going to work.

Another tip is to use the 2 second timer. Pressing the shutter release moves the camera so with the timer you press & hold still until it takes the shot.

* Taking the Cannon further I recommend the SD1400 as it has color swap, fish eye and color select features. Basically Photo shop built in! Also its 12 Mega Pixels vrs. 10 on the 1200.

+1 on the Canon.  It's hard to go wrong with just about any of them.  There are a couple of camera forums you can peruse to make some determination.  The only exception to SuppressionFire's recommendation to get the 12 MP camera is then you'll be needing to find editing software that will allow you to take those 12 MB pictures down to the ridiculously-small size of around 256 KB.  You don't have that problem with FSM, as you have to put the pictures on another site and link, but a LOT of forums have really, really small picture size requirements to post.  OTOH, the 12 MP camera will be nice for other subjects like vacation and family pictures. 

Here's a couple: 

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/

&

http://forum.digitalcamerareview.com/canon/

in no particular order.

Gene Beaird,
Pearland, Texas

G. Beaird,

Pearland, Texas

  • Member since
    September 2007
  • From: Truro Nova Scotia, Canada
Posted by SuppressionFire on Friday, May 13, 2011 12:31 PM

TD4438

I would love to see better pics of that M48.

The camera I have is a Canon PowerShot SD790 IS Digital Elph.It takes some nice pics.I picked it up at best buy about two years ago.

Whatever camera you get,make sure it has a digital macro feature for good close up shots.

Agreed the Cannon is a excellent camera. I use the SD 1200. I find its best NOT to use the zoom feature and just get close in. This camera can almost touch the subject! Long as the green focus box appears its going to work.

Another tip is to use the 2 second timer. Pressing the shutter release moves the camera so with the timer you press & hold still until it takes the shot.

* Taking the Cannon further I recommend the SD1400 as it has color swap, fish eye and color select features. Basically Photo shop built in! Also its 12 Mega Pixels vrs. 10 on the 1200.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Friday, May 13, 2011 12:23 PM

I'm thinking the camera is more complex then making the model. It' something I really have to study. I don't want to buy the wrong thing. And I truly appreciate anybody who has any suggestions about the camera or the model.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Friday, May 13, 2011 12:15 PM

On the camera question, when you do shop for a camera with a Macro setting, also be sure to look into the distance that macro setting is good for. Depending on the camera model and the lense it's equipped with, the minimum distance between your camera and the object being photographed can vary widely (typical minimum distance on most point-and-shoots is 12-18 inches). This, in turn, will affect how the macro shots capture your details and how you have to handle your depth of field and focus elements. HTH and nice work so far on your Hue setting. Beer

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Friday, May 13, 2011 11:54 AM

Thanks, but those photos make me cringe. It's almost done, many little things like the mud, making it look more random, the engine deck a little and some tracks and C rations boxes on the turret, plus some paint things. But basically it's done.....now I have some jeeps/mutts and a M274 mule to finish and a few figures.

German armor form WWII and aircraft are varied and interesting subjects. But I just find Vietnam more interesting, it was such a one sided war. The USA came out this all these new weapons and transitioned into a new army during that time. I love reading about things that went on like the whole M551 Sheridan tank mess.....It was all like the military of that time was run by the three stooges comedy team.

WWII German armor is very interesting, way a head of the other countries technically and to model them is a fun process since I have never seen a picture of pristine German armor. Plus they would take anything that ran and modify it to be used since they were being bombed into submission or at least trying to be.

Yes Hue was a major battle during the Tet offensive of 1968 in Vietnam. The amazing thing about Tet was that the USA ended the VC and NVA armies ability to fight for years yet we lost the war. So the USA and ARVN forces won all the battles yet lost the war. That's what happens when it turns political and it's not a situation with clear cut objectives. WWII was beat the enemy and raise your flag on their capitol city like some board game.

Vietnam was a police action like Afghanistan is now. You cannot win those wars, only the people of that country can win, it's a civil war just like the one we had in the 1860s. Could you imagine if England or Spain or France landed troops to help the south fight, man that war might have lasted 20 years and bankrupt those countries like Iraq and Afghanistan did the USA.

Reading about history is great but some times I find it emotionally draining. The battle for Hue was one of those reads. I think some of the commanders of the Hue battle should have been court-marshalled for the things they did. They ignored so many common sense basic military tactics.

The one that got me was telling Marine infantry you have to take on a dug in heavily fortified enemy without anything more powerful than a hand grenade. They could not even use their LAWs or mortars, just their small arm weapons and grenades. The needless slaughter of Marine infantry, sending those brave young men into battle like that. We had the weapons but were not allowed to use them since it was a cultural city, a similar situation happened in WWII at Monte Cassino in Italy. Once we finally got the OK we blasted them, we should have waited until we got the OK before we sent in any troops. They were shooting Medvac choppers out of the sky and chopping up troops by the hundreds.

Very sad and very upsetting to know American Generals sent those kids into certain death. They were kids, most of those Marines were 19 years old to their mid 20s. So many young officers were no more then 20 years old with no experience. The Marines were pulled from jungle fighting and told to just start fighting house to house. Anybody who knows about fighting in built up area's knows that it is a special set of skills to do either. I read some books about how the Russians fought in WWII house to house. Amazing reading......I'm pretty sure a lot of those veteran Russian troops were teaching the North Vietnam army a thing or two. In Hue the fortifications were similar to what the Russians did, I don't think to this day anybody has realized that and put two and two together.

Enough of history and back to Modeling. But it's all tied together, to do a model correctly you have to know the history, IMO. I see a lot of Vietnam era stuff that looks good but is wrong on so many little details, which is OK. But for me I want to get it right from the way they wore their uniforms to the weapons and details of which version of the armor was used and what modification were made.

For instance many of the Marines in Hue did not have all their gear, they were told to leave it behind. So most did not have packs or even suspenders for their web gear. They ended up putting handgrenades in their pockets and using whatever they could find like used demolition bags and used claymore mine bags and filled them with stuff. They were not given rations even, not until later. Some were fed by the local people who came out of hiding with some bowls of rice for them. Their uniforms were worn for weeks without being washed, they were ripped and torn and dirty, the Marines were, unequipped, unshaven, unclean and unfed but fought on.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, May 13, 2011 6:44 AM

Despite the photos, it still looks good. I am just glad my model building is better than my photography.

Going to show my ignorance here. Hue, is that the Vietnam war?

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Rugby, England
Posted by Hinksy on Friday, May 13, 2011 6:39 AM

Hey BDB,

I think she looks very good BigDaddy - it's hard to tell from them photos Wink I'd love to see more!

Vietnam was the first major conflict that really got my interest in early to mid 20th Century Military history.

I eventually found that German WWII armour was a great subject and WWII a very interesting and enthralling subject to study!

I'd love to do a basic Vietnam build (I tried the Academy Ontos but shelved that as it wasn't a great kit (imo).

I'd like to do another 'Nam tank and then perhaps a vignette with a Huey hovering over long grass while the troops jump off. I've only ever built armour and a Huey would be great fun!

Keep us posted on your work.

ATVB

Ben Yes

On the Bench - Dragon Pz. IV Ausf. G (L.A.H.) Yes

Your image is loading...

 

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:31 AM

Thank you very much, I will look into that camera feature if I decide to buy one. I think that along with proper lighting and background are the key issues.

 

  • Member since
    March 2006
Posted by TD4438 on Wednesday, May 11, 2011 11:24 AM

I would love to see better pics of that M48.

The camera I have is a Canon PowerShot SD790 IS Digital Elph.It takes some nice pics.I picked it up at best buy about two years ago.

Whatever camera you get,make sure it has a digital macro feature for good close up shots.

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:47 PM

I'm looking at the photos now and cringing. All that detail work....LOST in a picture.

It's the Tamiya kit of course, AFV tracks, Metal barrel 90mm barrel, metal 50 cal, TWS cupola and the light is from the Legend kit. It's not done yet. I have to add the commander and gunner/loader, the driver is there. I also am going to add some tracks on the side of the turret and some more of that wonderful Vietnam mud, not much more just fill in places I missed. Plus some little things like antenna and some bags and weapons on top.

There weren't many pictures of M48A3s in Hue, just a few and a lot of them were actually M67A2s. In fact the Marines did not really have that many M48s there.

It's mind boggling that Israel lost over 300 M48s in the 73 war. No wonder we came up with all that add on armor and the M1 as did other NATO countries.

Just in case you missed it, any suggestions on a new camera......??????

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Staten Island
M48A3 for Hue diorama
Posted by BigDaddyBluesman on Tuesday, May 10, 2011 4:36 PM

OK here are 2 pictures of my M48A3 for the Hue diorama I am building.

As you can see my camera is horrible, I realize I need a new camera if I am going to take details pictures. Does anybody have a suggestion for a good camera to take pictures of models? Yes I would rather take the female human kind but I am devoted to plastic and resin.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg150/bigdaddybluesman57/m48pix2.jpg

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg150/bigdaddybluesman57/m48pix1.jpg

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