Vietnam modeling

Yeah, Vietnam! THE subject for me. I even run a website about it. Got fascinated some 15 years ago and it's still holding me. It all started with the tiny OH-6 model by Italeri. 1:35 ground equipment and 1:72 choppers/helos are the subjects I like best. Of course arty is contained in the first category.

I still regret not picking up M109 and M110, and I remember the time well, when they almost threw those kits at you - they were everywhere in the hobby shops. Nowadays it's hard to even find a hobby shop, not to mention those classics. After such experiences, how is one supposed not to build a stash? I mean you have to grab 'em while they're still there.

That said, have a nice day

Paweł

Didn't know we had that in inventory.

redleg12

Kevin, you would show your mortar pics.....now late on Sunday you get me all excited

Easy there big fella.    Looking these over... Well, I'm actually getting all warm and fuzzy myself.

M55, yep, but like I said I don't think the M53 made it. They went for the longer range M107.

Kevin, you would show your mortar pics.....now late on Sunday you get me all excited

Nice stuff as always Kevin.

Rounds Complete!!

Something like this? EFSS - Expeditionary Fire Support System

Which is the US version of this...

Trust me BDB... this is much more capable than the Howtar.

Cool!!!!!!!!!!!! That's the one......the howtar, a great idea, a great weapon and somehing we should still be using but in 120mm.

I found a unit that used the M55 in nam.

http://3rd8inchhowitzerbattery.rpdsquared.com/index.htm

redleg12

Did somebody say Howtar!!!......Clam down Kevin!

Oh My! The Howtar

I thought the M55 and M53 was with the Marines and replaced by the M107 and M110. The M53 being taken out of service first. That's what I have been able to confirm so far. I have a few books and did some google searches.

Yes I said Howtar, one of the best loved weapons of the Marines. They liked it way more then the four deuce because it was easy to set up and fire quickly.

Noah - sorry I did not get back sooner but I see my brother Gino was keeping things going.

As far as you list, I think you pretty much covered it. The M55 was in VN service with the Army. I do not think the M53 ever saw combat service. The Army discontiued use of the M53 in the late 50s. Only the Marines were still operating the M53. By time the Marines came in country, they were already fielded M107/M110. the rest of the list looks pretty good.

If you want to count RR you need to look at the M50 Ontos and the M274 Mule with 106mm RR. And lets not forget the M56 Scorpion 90mm Gun

As far as the resin kits, I have to agree with Gino. They do not look like they have any interior. For the price, you can buy the re-pop of the Renwal kit (~$30).....if you want a correct barrel, pick up another M110 kit and use the barrel. Now go to Verlinden pick up an M578 conversion set. Use it with the remaining parts from the M110.

Now you will have two VN era models for the price (or less) of the resin kit.

Did somebody say Howatar!!!......Clam down Kevin!

Rounds Complete!!

You might be right there.....right now I do not have the skills to do it. I am diligently working on them. My goal for now is painting faces......my hands shake some times. I have to get the right brush and paint combinations.

As my spinal issues become worse I may not be able to even do the modeling, that would be a drag man. Right now it's all I can do.

I think for me it's too much work for one vehicle and it would be better to try and update the German model...

I still think it would be much easier and cheaper to upgrade the Revell/Renwall kit.  1/32 isn't that far off from 1/35 and it already has an interior to start with.  It's much easier to work with modifying plastic than it is with resin too.  To each their own I guess.

HeavyArty

 

Revell is re-issuing the old Renwal M55 kit. 

Great kit when I was a kid.

Oh but first I am going to try and take those older model WC 50 whatever kits out there and make them into M37 gun trucks.

I was surprised at the amount of M37s I see in Vietnam pictures. They were all over the place. I guess they filled a niche between a M151A1 and the M35s.

I have read that in the gun truck convoys a lot of the unit commanders traveled in an armored M37. In fact the whole Vietnam Guntruck story is extremely interesting and I recommend it. There's a great one on the web just google it.

I was very tempted to buy this and an M47 too. But when you add it all up I figured it would make sense to just buy the M55 from the German company. I'm waiting hopefully our dollar gets stronger against the euro eventually.

I'm only doing 1:35 scale. I read some OLD articles about the guy who did the scratch build for the German company who bought it from him. It took him a few years to do it. From what I understand the Revell model is so out of scale that it wouldn't be that hard if you used an M47 chassis.

This is the company and page for the M55. http://www.elitemodell.de/shop/article_3578/Panzerhaubitze-M55.html?shop_param=cid%3D1%26aid%3D3578%26

M53 http://www.elitemodell.de/shop/article_3579/Schwere-Panzerkanone-M53.html?shop_param=cid%3D8%26aid%3D3579%26

Honestly they don't look all that interesting and do not have any interior. For that kind of money I would expect some interior. Also whomever did the model for them did not paint it well, the detailing does not look crisp and the colors are off from what pictures I do have of them. They are missing an important piece on the mantel, the telescope is not on the German models.

Every picture I do have of them in service is with everything open and in the ready to fire position. So this model does not excite me other than the fact it is a BEAST!!!!! Done correctly looks awesome. So either way it would be a lot of work and money to make them right. In fact the guy who did the original in 1:35 scale for them said you still need to buy a better aftermarket track for a M47.

I read the Wim Wink build up a while ago and it does look great, that is in 1:32 though if I remember. I have thought about getting a M47 and the 1:32 M55 and just try to use whatever pieces from the M47 and M48 tanks fit, scratch others and use the 1:32 pieces cut down, for the gun maybe the barrel from a m115 towed kit and some other parts look like they might work. I think for me it's too much work for one vehicle and it would be better to try and update the German model or include it in a diorama. But again I would have to cut open the doors and make an inside of some sort to make it look cool. I just might pass on this.

As it is I am trying to figure out how to scratch build something a lot easier, a HSSC seal boat.

...did I miss anything artillery wise? ...the M55/M53.

Revell is re-issuing the old Renwal M55 kit.  It is on eBay and at oversees shops already.  It should be in US shops any time now.  It is 1/32 scale and not as detailed as some of the newer kits, but is still very usuable. 

I can be made into a gem.   Here is a great example of one by Wim Vink.

M55 8" Howitzer

You can update it using parts from Italeri's M47 since they were built on the same hull.  You can also use parts from Tamiya's M48A3 since they are pretty close.  Also, you can build an M53 by swapping the barrel out with a 155mm one.  I plan on getting at least one to work on.

Hey Redleg,

Off topic - I don't like the angry face on the smiley as it's not relevant!

No problem, everyone is entitled to a rant!

Perhaps it sounded like a 'rivet-counter' style moan but I never really 'felt the love' for the Academy ONTOS! I struggled to get things sitting straight and just felt unhappy with the build so it got shelved. I've still got the figures - they were good, shame the diameter of the shell casings was about the same diameter as the outside diameter of the barrels!

Overscale rounds and fenders aside I'd still love to build an ONTOS. Perhaps if I were to try again now I'd get on a bit better as I've learnt a fair bit since my original attempt! Like you say it's NOT an easy kit to build and I found it a real struggle back when I had just started out!

I still think Dragon & Tamiya could both put out a good version. I know exactly what you mean about both of the companies but Dragons instructions wouldn't be right if thet weren't wrong  and Tamiya; well, I love building Tamiya kits so would need to see it (if there was one) before passing judgement on their version. I've built loads of Tamiya and at present am not worried about their lack of 'finesse'!

Perhaps I'll have to get another Academy ONTOS with the Griffon Brass upgrade kit (barrels etc). 

Cheers buddy,

Ben

I started the Ontos kit and stopped because I realized I was not ready for it. I have some PE stuff and barrels for it. I knew my model building skills were not up to par just yet for that build to be done correctly. Any issues with it cannot really be noticed all that much. The height is a little off but this is a 1:35 scale model and to get it perfect is impossible. When done well it looks great, Mike did one that looks awesome.

Like the Tamiya M48A3, you need to sand a lot of parts to get them to look right otherwise they are too think. Or replace with brass or sprue. The big thing with that model is the tracks and suspension height along with the thickness of some of the parts. The sprocket is all wrong and I found a German company who makes the correct ones for it. Or you can use some sand paper and a dremel tool.

It's funny now how many backdate kits are out there for some vehicles now.

I also did find a French company that makes the M706 Air force version open top and have that. It's just a Hobby Boss kit with the extra parts. They even took the same box and turned the cover inside out and put a new picture on top. But it looks good and I can't wait to build some M706s.

I so far have a nice collection of Vietnam era models and figures. They have some resin kits made in Germany that are very expensive. I hope when I am ready to buy they still have them.

That includes Artillery, A company makes the M55 and M53 both used by the marines in the early part of the war. At about $200 each it's a hard sell, that's because of the terrible conversion rate right now, the dollar is very weak. I do have the M109, M107, M110, both types of 105mm howitzers and the M114 155mm to build. Before I build the M107 I want to figure out how to make that wild looking smoke ring that occurred when firing it. I think setting up a pair of 107s with one firing and that ring would look awesome with a M548 behind it. I like action dioramas best.

It is much harder to make Vietnam scenes because of the jungle and vegetation. But that's part of the fun, it's a challenge.

Mike did I miss anything artillery wise? The Howtar is coming soon, I have to get a M108. But I do have the 109, 107, 110, both 105s, 155 towed and I will eventually get the M55/M53. Mortar wise the M106 and I am looking for the M125. Did I miss anything? They did use the Scorpion for 1 year and the only one is a 1:40 scale, it's actually similar to the Ontos and could probably be build from that model. The chassis is very similar and it's basically just a gun on a chassis, maybe in the future........sprue and brass.

Ben - I would respectfully disagree with the thoughts on the Ontos. I will agree on the following...It is not an easy kit and take some experience and patience to build properly.

Its major "scale" problem is the road wheel set is not aligned properly causing the front of the Ontos kit to sit lower. But, it is not truly noticable in the built kit except to true bolt counters who are measuring the size of bolt heads on a model. The fit of the main hull was excellent. The fit of the 6 106mm RR is VERY TRICKY to get all 6 straight. The fenders are a bit thick but no worse than any other kit and like many others can be replace with PE. In general it is a 1000% improvement over the old Renwal or Hobby Fan M50 Ontos kits.

IMO....there are 9423 other subjects that Dragon and Tamiya could pick that we do not have any model today. 

Dragon could finish their halftrack series....where is the T30. As for Tamiya, they appear to be fading from the 1/35 game.

Besides.....if they both put out an M50, we would be complaing about Dragons incorrect instructions and Tamiya's lack of details.

OK.....that's my rant...sorry Ben....I now return you to your VN posting!!

Rounds Complete!!

Hi folks,

It was my interest in the Vietnam War that kindled my interest in WWI, WWII & later conflicts. I became a 'hobby historian when I was about to leave middle school and when I started modelling just over two years ago my interest really took off but I was able to concentrate on Armour which I realised was an amazingly interesting subject.

I was surprised that although there was stacks of WWII kits and figures in my LHS the 'Nam historian was more or less ignored (my LHS isn't the best btw).

I did buy the Academy ONTOS and started to build that but imo, it was a terrible kit with fitment problems and ridiculously over scale parts and thick, nasty plastic that I found very hard to work with. I've seen some excellent builds of this kit but I struggled - probably being a relative newbie didn't help.

The Academy ONTOS box art:

The ONTOS is still a great looking machine and I'd love to see Dragon or Tamiya release their own version - particularly Dragon as I think it would be a great kit and look superb on a 'Nam scenery base with one or two grunts mooching alongside. The AM Griffon(?) Brass set loks like a very good addition if it could be made to be used on a Dragon kit.

ATVB

Ben

Well, when I first got out in '74, I started building VN subjects shortly thereafter but I do understand that the hobby as well as the real deals are constantly evolving and have no argument with those wanting to build the latest and greatest. VN era still fascinates me as it was from my initial time period and can relate to the gas powered M113s and non-forward assist M16 rifles etc. Despite the related unpopularity of that time period, it will always be my greatest interest.

And that's just me... A crankity old Yank.

When Italeri entered the modern artillery market with the M107 and M108, M109 kits, the very first articles being printed in modeling magazines concentrated on how to bring the vehicles up to modern standards, turning the M107 into an M110 or A1, or M109 into the A1 or later.

They were fine for Vietnam era models, but the current modern armor modeler wanted to make the kit into a current vehicle.

When I first built the Tamiya M113 and Tamiya M48A3 30 years ago, I was more concerned with turning the 113 into an A2 that I learned to drive or the A3 into an A5 that I crewed.

.....Yep...have to agree with Gino and Rob. Most of the "serious" modelers find thier niche. It could be German WWII, Shermans, or Artillery .

The masses (if you want to call them that) who buy the occasional model, look for the latest and greatest as Rob described.

As for not seeing VN, as someone who builds form a number of eras, I do get into my share of red earth. With my niche, so many eras and so little time.

Noah, I know your niche is VN, with the exception of the Germaholics, I think you see a pretty good spread here from Korea to present.

Anyone building artillery .....

Rounds Complete!!

I agree with Rob.  Modern (post WWII, as described by the modeling community) will always be looking forward.  There are niches of period builders who focus on Vietnam, Korea, etc., but not a large number.  There will always be a larger group of WWII subjects since it is what sells in Asia and the big companies focus more on it, hence there are more WWII subjects out there.  Most of us who don't focus on WWII build a wide variety of post WWII modern models.   So keep your eyes peeled, the occasional Vietnam build will be posted from time to time. 

If you are looking just to focus on Vietnam builds, there are websites that focus on them as well, you just have to look for them.

Vietnam modeling was all the rage when I first started modeling seriously. The Nam era M48A3 and M113A1 by Tamiya along with some of the late 70s early 80s modern (for the time) US armor. But it was short lived with the new Abrams and M2/3 Bradleys, Sgt. York, LVTP7 and HMMWVs coming out, the trend shifted towards 1980s Cold War Europe.

Then Desert Shield/Desert Storm happened and all the news and photos and new kits. Modern armor rarely looked back after that.

Even today, modelers focus on WW2 or they have to have the latest variant of current modern armor. Even Desert Storm modeling and invasion OIF is becoming passe. Folks want the current vehicle being fielded and in use. You'll hear terms like, yeah, that's OK for an OIF 1, but you need to do this to get it up to current standards, etc.

Don't get me wrong, there are still modelers interested in Korean War, Vietnam, Middle Eastern wars and Cold War armor, but modern modelers seem to strive for the latest and greatest.

A Dien Bein Phu M-24 would be fun or a 1/2 track from Mobile Group 100.  An M-48 vs a PT-76 is certainly possible as well as a "Duster" at the wire.  I could easily do an ARVN M-41.

Yeah, I need to get out of the Panzer mindset.  Maybe after I do an alternate history Republic of Texas Challenger tank.

MAJ Mike

Too many bad memories, perhaps?  Wish i had an answer. 

Good question.  Wonder why there's so little comment.  Thanks for posting.

Cheers.

After reading the excellent stories of the LRRP's in Vietnam by Garry Lindberg I must say the idea to model the elite group is very appealing. 

Vegetation, especially jungle is difficult to model. Not to mention the complex Tiger Stripe camouflage worn by elite troops.

It kind of explains why winter, desert, spring & fall seasons are the choice (including me) of many modelers.

Another idea for a diorama in the depths of my mind is to model a Fire base scene. Verlinden made 'cool' resin figures that would be at home in and around the bunkers & red mud. Another would be the trench scene with 'the Roach' & his M-79 grenade launcher. Bravo 1 makes excellent resin figures that closely resemble the characters from Apocalypse Now. Who can forget 'FMJ or Uncommon Valor? Those two movies alone can spawn 1000 diorama ideas.

Possibly a 1000 hour GB in the future?

Charlie may model but 'Charlie don't surf!'

*If anyone needs 'Red mud' reference photographs or a jar of it sent for examination I live in a delta that is a lot like the material found in Nam'

'...PBR Street Gang this is All mighty over....'

^^^ The absolute best war movie quotes of all time come from the three movies mentioned above! ^^^

Too many bad memories, perhaps?  Wish i had an answer. 

I've got an M-113 kit, but I want to build it as the APC I had in the 1980's.  Wouldn't mind building a French M-24 or an ARVN M-41.  One day perhaps.

Good question.  Wonder why there's so little comment.  Thanks for posting.

Cheers.