decals for panzer II F/G tamiya

Lots of units had shields for the insignia. The only Pz Div i can think of with a bear is the 3rd. Its likley the numbers are supposed to represent the company.

This is going to sound kinda stupid; but are you sure it's not just the decal number on the sheet?

Any way you could scan it (or take a really close picture of it) and post it here? 

It may also be an insignia of a panzer regiment and not a division. 

Yeah it has asian writing then 3 under the bear

Tankluver,

If you take a look at this website here for just a sec:

http://www.oocities.org/firefly1002000/markings.html

Are you referring to the characters like on the website? That's not asian, those are unit markings.

I have the very same kit here (the one with the german desert soldiers added?) and i recall not seeing any asian texts or letters on the decalsheet... just unit markings, numbers and some insignia. I do have to say the instructions are very sparse on the placement and a complete lack of camouflage advice apart from the boxart.

Richard

Mu apologies i meant on the instructions for painting, theres a picture of the bear and some asian text but theres a number 3

Yes I jave the one that comes with the desert infantry.

Here is the instructions, there might be some mistakes but from a quick search I came up with this and added the english unit above the tanks.

3rd panzer army or division ? Thank you for doing the research I couldnt find them in english

when I first looked at it I just went by the division markings, the upside down y with two slashes is 3rd panzer division but after some more looking around their bear insignia was different and inside a shield. The standing grizzly is for 4th panzer division and you'll have to add 1 more vertical slash which should be no problem. 4th panzer div. was on the eastern front as well so the camo scheme should be the same. I'm don't know what color the the 115 marking is but I would think it should be either white or red being eastern front.

Thank you very much, I thought the camo for the "3rd" would of been for the eastern front rather then Afrika

Where did you get the information of the bear being used with 4th Panzer Division? According to all reference materials I have, that is incorrect. It was formed in the Berlin area and the original division insignia was an "E" laying with the long arm across the top to represent the Brandenburg Gate. Berlin has the bear as the city symbol, and this was later adopted by the 3rd Panzer Division. The inverted "Y" with the two hash marks is the correct division markings, along with the Berlin Bear for 3rd Panzer Division for a portion of their time in Russia.

4th Panzer Division came from the Wurzburg area. No association with Berlin.

There are two different bears, you are correct about 3rd panzer and them having bears. This is their insignia:

4th panzer also used bears.  I think it was panzer regiment 35.

the inverted Y with 2 hash marks is correct for 3rd panzer  but if he wants to use the red bear as he asked info on, then he would have to add another hash mark to make it 4th panzer.

The Red Berlin Bear was specific to Panzer Regiment 6 of 3rd Panzer Division. The bear with the White shield was for all other vehicles in 3rd Panzer Division. The Red Bear of 6th Panzer Regiment was seen on some 4th Panzer Dvision vehicles when Tauchpanzers (diving tanks) were attached from a cadre of 6th PR personnel and their vehicles during training for operation Sea Lion in Summer 1940.

Later in the war, the 4th Panzer Division symbol, along with crossed swords, was used on a Regimental Shield for 6th Panzer Regiment and was seen with the unshielded Bear (no longer red) on 3rd Panzer Division Mk IVs in Russia, 1943/44

The information I have is that crossed swords emblem was ONLY used by Panzer regiment 35 of 4th Pz.Div and commemorates the award of the swords to the Knight's Cross of the divisional commander Gen lt von Saucken.



 Supposedly the colors were based on company the 1st had a white, the 2nd red, 3rd yellow, and the 4th a blue bear. In the Concord book 4th Panzer Division on the Eastern Front 41-43, you can find several 4th div panzers with the walking bear in different colors.

The old Panzer Colors books while good a source of great pics had some 4th panzer misidentified as 3rd panzer. Please don't take it that I am bashing the authors or thier work. Panzer colors 2 is almost 30 years old and new info and pictures had been discovered in the meantime. One of the co-authors himself has posted corrections at http://starbacks.ca/Baja/1654/errors.html

Ya got me there Eg, as I was basing my information primarily off of the older Panzer Colors II book. I guess I need to go and remark some of my older Panzer builds now...  One would think that the closer to an event the information was gathered, the more accurate it would be, as memories fade of over time. Ah well...

No worries, you can't really blame the Panzer Colors books, they were made in the late 70's early 80's? While some of the identification is off, they are still have some great shots and are worth picking up. I think you're right about memories and the fading of time. The 'net has to be a such a great asset to anyone wanting publish reference material that I couldn't imagine having to do without it.

Pick up the 3 panzer colors books when you can (despite their flaws).  Bruce Culver said that the original plates no longer exist so they can't be re-printed.

BTW: errats sheets for the books are online and available too.

I have all three of the Paner Colors books. Great pics in those. Its the interpretation of some photos that leads to stuff like here My Volume I is so often used that the binding is falling apart. I need a new copy.

stikpusher

One would think that the closer to an event the information was gathered, the more accurate it would be, as memories fade of over time. Ah well...

I know what you mean, there has been quite a bit of information come out recently that has changed what we thought was correct especially when it come to German armour. 2 that stick in my mind are the info on the 251/3 and the debate over the correct paint schemes of German armour during the 1940 campaign. But this all seems to be based on evidence that has come to light, or maybe others did not check.

But then i have to wounder. Will someone come along in 20 years with new evidence that says somthing different.

But those Pz Colours books are very handy, and ye, my ain't in very good condition either, i think most of the pages have come lose.

stikpusher

One would think that the closer to an event the information was gathered, the more accurate it would be, as memories fade of over time. Ah well...

I know what you mean, there has been quite a bit of information come out recently that has changed what we thought was correct especially when it come to German armour. 2 that stick in my mind are the info on the 251/3 and the debate over the correct paint schemes of German armour during the 1940 campaign. But this all seems to be based on evidence that has come to light, or maybe others did not check.

But then i have to wounder. Will someone come along in 20 years with new evidence that says somthing different.

But those Pz Colours books are very handy, and ye, my ain't in very good condition either, i think most of the pages have come lose.

What is interseting there is in the "correction" on the monotone gray vs brown and gray camo, the information is there in Panzer Colors I with the memorandum numbers and dates. The big shift in debate seems to be in photos now being able to be manipulated via computer programs by anyone with a computer and the skill and software to do so  in order to now show the contrast that was not possible before. When those books were written, only those with access to archived original photos and negatives could access that material and say with any authority what was so. It is nice to learn when new documentation is uncovered, but photo interpretation still remains part art as much as science, even with all the new voodoo magic computer capabilities. I have no doubt that 20 years from now, new material will come to light.

That is very true when you mention computers. And i think that raises a concern, at least for me. If you can manipulate photos to show the colours, then in theory you can manipulate them to show what you want.

So its still improrant to cross check any info you get.

T26E4

Pick up the 3 panzer colors books when you can (despite their flaws).  Bruce Culver said that the original plates no longer exist so they can't be re-printed.

BTW: errats sheets for the books are online and available too.

 

I agree, they are great references for the moderately interested modelers. Expert panzer modelers probably have more in depth research literature, but I find these things to be the first item I turn to when I get the "panzer bug" (suffering from it now).

I thought they were being sold by Squadron within the past 10 years. The copies I have are dated 1976 (vol 1), 1984 (vol 2) and 1978 (vol 3). There's a set of all three on eBay for $15 + shipping right now.