SEARCH FINESCALE.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Has anyone been watching "Greatest Tank Battles" on Netflix?

1307 views
13 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    July 2011
Has anyone been watching "Greatest Tank Battles" on Netflix?
Posted by RonUSMC2 on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 11:38 AM

10 episodes. I learn something every time. I love the actual German tankers on there. They were totally unimpressed by the Sherman, lol.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco, CA
Posted by telsono on Tuesday, December 13, 2011 5:04 PM

It seemed only Lt. General McNair was impressed with it. Actually, the British liked it better than cruisers, but that is another story. I am reading "Death Traps" by Belton Cooper and he is sharp in his comments about the M4 series. He is the one that says the Patton influenced the slowe delivery of the M26 Pershing. I am not saying that Patton didn't make that statement in Jan. 1944 at that event, but the language of his statement is very close to the language by that used by McNair in memo's delaying the advance on the M26. Patton may only  have quoted from the memos, which could have been contrary to his personal beliefs. He was still in the political doghouse at that time (until he came to France actually) so he might have kept his public statements to be following official policy statements so Ike didn't have to bail him out. Karma might of had it for McNair, as he was the highest ranking US Army officer killed in WWII at the beginning of Operation Cobra, aerial bombs from B-26s undershot their targets and he died in his foxhole while observing the battle.

Mike T.

Beware the hobby that eats.  - Ben Franklin

Do not fear mistakes. You will know failure. Continue to reach out. - Ben Franklin

The U.S. Constitution  doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Ben Franklin

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 8:51 AM

I have seen it on regular TV, the Military History Channel,it is a pretty interesting series,I like the CG

  • Member since
    April 2009
  • From: Carmel, IN
Posted by deafpanzer on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 11:22 AM

Love those shows! Yes  I am not sure how histoically accuracy they are but it was great.  Ther ran reruns all day on Thanksgiving Day recently.  I am sure they will do that again maybe for the holidays...

 

Andy

  • Member since
    June 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 4:50 PM

I've watched all of them (I think) on the Military Channel... It's irritating... All CG crap, with the "camera shakes", "mud "splttering" on the "lens"...  And the towed AT guns, 88s, and howitzers magically fire with no crews... That's something to see for sure...

"Call of Duty" on TV... 'Cept "Call of Duty" is more realistic...

I'd rather they used stock footage than CG... But I do love the Vets' commentary... Wish they'd have called me for "73 Easting" though I did see a familiar face on that episode..... I remember it a bit differently than how they portrayed it with the CG, but they got it mostly right... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, December 16, 2011 6:35 AM

A lot of technical firepower that went into what I consider at best mediocre military history. And considering the fact that it was to present armor warfare from the "bottom of the fishbowl" it was lacking in impact. I can't possibly go into specifics but here are some general points:

1. What are usually described are bits and pieces of skirmishes that were part of much larger conflicts. The problem is that it gives the viewer the impression that armor warfare was a kind of joust or duel. (Several of the aerial combat shows suffer the same problem.) What's lost is that tanks were expected to play several roles in any given engagement and shooting at other tanks was probably the least common.

2. Crucial weapons are given little consideration. Mines were a serious enemy to tank movement at any time. Before any of those jousts took place there's a good chance somebody's combat engineers was looking for mine fields or, if they weren't, that you'd find them by having tracks blown off - or worse. It is very likely that most tanks were killed by anti-tank guns. There were tons of them and because they were so easy to hide were a dreadful menace. It was a rare day where tanks showed themselves for any extended periods: if they did, they would be vulnerable from fire attack by standard artillery. HE might not kill a tank (although a direct hit probably would - it certainly would if the shell was a large one) it could easily damage them. When in an engagement this put a huge premium on holding onto the field. If you lost ground, you lost the ability to recover tanks, so on a bad day a damaged tank was as dead as a dead one. In some battlefields the individual anti-tank weapon was changing the rules in a very serious way. (The success in the late war of the Panzerfaust and Panzerschreckt, not to mention our own bazooka, led many post 1945 officers to question the viability of the tank in a future war. Korea solved that question.) And airpower of course. Here, I'm glad that the producers didn't turn armored combat into Private Ryan. Allied airpower was a crucial advantage but not because they killed large numbers of tanks. Rather because they could have killed large numbers of tanks (and anything else that moved) if given the targets. Constriction of German movement rather than direct attack was the biggest tactical advantage normally gained by allied aircraft in armored warfare.

3. When looking at many accounts of the Western allies in 1944-45 one would swear the Germans won the war. Not only did the Wehrmacht lose, there's a very good chance that it lost more men than the attackers - quite a change from the Ost. Nobody has ever fought a perfect war and in retrospect the tank destroyer did not fill the void that a more robust tank might have. And if the Pershing could not have been deployed in large numbers without screwing up the logistic pipeline, the US certainly should have had 76mm guns on tanks before they did - and maybe grab a few 17lbers too.  But German tenacity was due far more to the fact that they were on the defensive than the superiority of their best tanks. The Germans in northern Europe were fighting on excellent defensive terrain - much better than the Ost. It had everything. Hedges, trees, stone walls, streams, rivers, buildings galore and excellent communication were available to what was a very good army. The periods when the Germans attacked their wonder weapons and wonder tactics became very mortal very quickly. Those miserable Shermans when able to get off the first few shots at close range at attacking German armor became dangerous weapons. Lastly, let's not forget that the very large number of Shermans and other AFVs allowed the allies to attach armored battalions (by Sepember 44) to every infantry division which made them, because they were already motorized, the equivalent of Panzergrenadier divisions. This had serious consequences for the Germans. The Germans delivered heavy blows while defending. But because of the Allied decision to emphasize artillery, communications, mobility and simple firepower, an Allied victory in a battle did not simply create German widows - it allowed advances of speed rarely matched in the history of war. When the Germans won a battle we lost tanks. When they lost a battle, they lost armies. That's why in ten months after D-Day, despite bearing all of the disadvantages of the attacker, Allied armies were in Prague, Copenhagen and just west of Berlin. If you were going to get a bit or piece of this process would have been a deeper and more complex picture than the one given by the history channel. Beat Project Runway though.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    September 2009
  • From: Guam
Posted by sub revolution on Friday, December 16, 2011 6:41 AM

I thought it was really good for a few episodes, then it all just becomes the same. Same CGI, same narration, same over-dramaticism. I generally don't watch documentaries on tv because these days they are all about shock value rather than actual fact. Older documentaries don't look as pretty, but they don't make me feel like a child being lectured to.

That being said, they made a series to commemorate the 150 anniversary of the Civil War, and what I saw of that was very excellent.

NEW SIG

  • Member since
    April 2010
  • From: Somewhere in MN
Posted by El Taino on Friday, December 16, 2011 7:03 AM

RonUSMC2

10 episodes. I learn something every time. I love the actual German tankers on there. They were totally unimpressed by the Sherman, lol.

I actually finished watching the series last week. Far from perfect but still enjoyable and watchable. Better than nothing IMO. I also learned a few things I was unaware of.

  • Member since
    July 2011
Posted by RonUSMC2 on Friday, December 16, 2011 9:26 AM

I just watched episode 8 last night. It had to be the largest tank battle in human history.

The battle of Krusk.

Germany

2900 Tanks
10000 Artillery
2000 Aircraft

Russia

 5000 Tanks
25000 Guns
2700 Aircraft 

*Interesting note... they said that Russia put down 400,000 mines and dug 250 miles of tank trenches.

All going full bore at each other without stopping. The tankers they interviewed said it was Armageddon. Everything was on fire. Smoke and fire everywhere. If I remember correctly, they said by the end that 200,000 men had died.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, December 16, 2011 4:54 PM

Kursk has been the subject of hard core "revisionism" as Eastern Front gurus keep grinding out highly detailed accounts of every major battle but with far better access to Russian records. The battles near Prokhorovka - supposedly "the biggest tank battle of all time" were a nasty Soviet tactical defeat. However, running into nearly 1,000 Soviet tanks unexpectedly had shaken German commanders, as did the slow shifting of air dominance to the Red AF. Far more important to the defeat of the offensive were major Soviet attacks against thin German lines both north and south of the salient. The northern Soviet assault out of Orel very nearly developed into a catastrophe for the Wehrmacht. As it was, what started as an orderly withdrawl to free forces for Sicily/Italy in late July turned into a rout along the central and southern sector of the German line as the Wehrmacht raced for the "safety" of the Dneiper.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: San Francisco, CA
Posted by telsono on Friday, December 16, 2011 5:02 PM

Eric - I have to agree with you almost totally. The M4 Sherman was not a tank killer and wasn't designed to be one. It was meant to follow the Armored Forces Doctrine and allow for tank destroyers, anti-tank guns and artillery to deal with those. The Sherman followed the infantry tank model, it was supposed to be able to support infantry by being able to destroy fortifications and hard points with an effective HE round. It was more mobile than the German tanks. From what I understand, the typical German tank would breakdown every 10 to 20 miles, while a Sherman could go 100 miles without a mechanical breakdown. And as one german officer is always quoted, "our tanks are worth 12 of yours, but you always had 13". It was sad to see the M4 being used as our main medium tank, we didn't really have a heavy tank to even mention. With both the M26 and the JS-2/3 of the Russians the need of separate medium and heavy tanks was thrown away for the MBT (main battle tank). With Lt. Gen. McNair's death at the start of Operation Cobra, the champion of the Armored Forces Doctrine was gone and new vehicles not following that doctrine, like the M26 could be produced.

Artillery was a big menace to advancing armored units. it first strips the armor of accompanying infantry, then it would possibly immobilize the vehicle by disabling the tracks our fouling the engine, rarely would it directly destroy a tank. Some tank crews were actually killed by the effect of the concussion that issued forth from a near miss by powerful artillery shell (usually 150mm or better), but the tank would be intact. A disabled tank on the battlefield is a dead tank.

With Kursk, I had read that the Britsh tipped off the Soviets ahead of time about using Enigma, which they wouldn't tell the Soviets about. Instead of an operation to cut off a salient, the Germans ran into one of the biggest ambushes of all time and also considered the largest tank battle of all time.

Mike T.

Beware the hobby that eats.  - Ben Franklin

Do not fear mistakes. You will know failure. Continue to reach out. - Ben Franklin

The U.S. Constitution  doesn't guarantee happiness, only the pursuit of it. You have to catch up with it yourself. - Ben Franklin

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Houston, Texas
Posted by panzerpilot on Friday, December 16, 2011 5:07 PM

An interesting note about Kursk: It was the first time the Allies let Stalin in on "Ultra" intel. They didn't tell him how they had gotten it, but they had the entire German order of Battle. Though skeptical at first, Stalin was persuaded to believe it. Most of it. Otherwise, the Germans could likely have routed them. I read where one of the surviving German commanders was told this much later on, in the late 1980's, and was totally at wits end that that was how the Soviets faught them so effectively.

-Tom

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Friday, December 16, 2011 10:34 PM

No question that the Rooskies had intel on Citadel. It used to be thought that the "Lucy" spy ring was feeding information via Wehrmacht sources. Maybe so - it could also be that the Soviets used their spies like Lucy or Sorge in Tokyo as postwar cover for the successes of Soviet signal intelligence. (Of course Stalin had to believe any form of intel - not always a sure thing.) I think data on this is a little sketchy. There was some information from London but official warnings were very vague as I understand it. Stalin did have a secret source inside Bletchley named Carincross (sometimes thought to be part of Philby's crowd later) who might have been giving out details. In any case, once the offensive was postponed in May there's no way that Soviet recon could not have picked it up. In retrospect we should never have been surprised before the Bulge and German forces there were much smaller than those in Citadel, most were staging behind the German frontier and the forests and winter weather severely hampered allied air recon. At Kursk you had the steppe in summer - pretty hard to hide 1.5 million men there. Ironically the recon equation would have been reversed: the Germans would have kept their flights limited to prevent tipping their hand. The Soviets could have flown anywhere they wanted and no doubt did. And the NKVD was running a major intelligence operating system in conjunction with partisan activities: they would have been spotting German movements all along the way. Whereas the USSR was the world's biggest prison. Bummer for the Soviets who lived there but also a bummer for OKH intelligence. Germany also fought the Eastern Front in an intelligence cloud. Wehrmacht at a certain level was a splendid military instrument (in the hands of a wicked gang of thugs) but was consistently pounded by their enemies in the intelligence game. A bad game to lose.

Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    March 2011
  • From: Ottawa,Ontario,Canada
Posted by modeler#1 on Monday, December 26, 2011 8:24 PM

I can't wait till the second season they really made it look good!

 

On the Bench: Nothing atm

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

SEARCH FORUMS
FREE NEWSLETTER
By signing up you may also receive reader surveys and occasional special offers. We do not sell, rent or trade our email lists. View our Privacy Policy.