Getting more professional

T-rex

Whats your opinion on aftermarket parts? When should it be properly used on a kit?

The only reason I don't use many aftermarket parts is because I am cheap...I don't spend much on this hobby. If I had more spare coin to throw around, I would probably buy more AM pieces, like tracks, metal barrels...things like that. 

Some builds I detail and some I don't. Its all up to you and the resources you have available and your desire to make your model as "realistic" as possible. As modelers, essentially we're making a replica of the real thing in a really small scale, so the more realistic, the better. Even if its just adding bits and pieces of scratch built material. 

Every aspect of modeling has its levels of detail and proficiency. You can build out of the box or super detail it with AM parts or scratch building. You can paint a flat, factory fresh finish, or you can weather and color modulate it. Its all up to you and how far you're willing to take it. 

I tend to use aftermarket parts quite a bit but I DO NOT think that they are necessary to make a model better or more professional. Can they make it more accurate? Sure, assuming they're incorporated correctly and also assuming that the AM parts are more accurate than the kit parts.. which is not always the case. I think it really boils down to personal preference. I like using them for some of the reasons you stated but mostly because I prefer what the AM stuff offers. Or I need them to get a specific effect I'm after such as thrown tracks or mangled sheet metal.

I also like to do box stock kits as well. The last award i got at AMPS was for a bone stock Tamiya Pz II... Simplest kit in the world.

Adding PE, resin, metal, etc. does not make one's kit more professional. It is the finished results that make one's build more professional.

There are times when AM items are needed to accurize a kit. Often times tank tracks are inaccurate or lack detail or are not the proper ones for the variant you are trying to protray. There are just as many times when the kit tracks are fine as is.

There are often issues with kit barrels being out of round. Some folks prefer to add putty and sand smooth, other folks like to automatically reach for the aluminum. That one is a personal choice unless the kit barrel is just too misshapen to be fixed.

PE, on the other hand, is often helpful when replacing out of scale thick parts or parts that can't be replicated well in plastic like grill or mesh. Most PE is wasted and should be left on the fret. Those PE grab handles would be akin to knife blades on the acutal tank.

Just don't become a "AM snob" where perfectly good kit parts are routinely tossed just because someone makes an AM item for that kit.

Rob nailed it...

I would hardly term it professional at all. Advance Modelers Syndrome (AMS), yes-professional, no. Its just  case of the build taking over your thought process, and the builder, for whatever reason, putting more and more effort in to all the small details. Teh basic kit will look like thereal thing- but the builder desires/obsesses to add that "one more" small thing to make it more "realistic". You know its there, some other builders know its there, but I bet the majority of folks who see the finished kit in person will not have any idea.

My view on aftermarket is...how much of a difference will it make to the final build? Obviously major accurizing sets (Ultracast's filletless tail for Tamiya's 1/48 P-51 comes to mind) have their place. I tend to be a big fan of resin seats and tires (I can never seem to completely remove the mold seams or join lines or rescribe the tread in a way that looks non-awful...and a lot of 1/32 kits are doing those annoying rubber tires with mold seams that are almost impossible to completely remove). Depending on the tank or the aircraft, aftermarket barrels. On some I think they're more trouble than they're worth, but on others they're so prominent that a well-sorted metal part makes a huge difference.

I'm VERY conflicted on PE. I've had a few instances where the stuff is a huge step up from kit parts (dive flaps on an SBD, Eduard's harness for Tamiya's big Spit), others where they're an improvement, but not quite so standout (Eduard's Tamiya Spit cockpit set or P-47 placard set). Others where they're more trouble than they're worth or where they actually look worse than the kit parts.

I also tend to avoid aftermarket for areas that won't be visible without feats of flexibility. I will never spend money on an aftermarket landing gear bay, a tank interior, or cockpit set for an aircraft with a tiny cockpit opening like the Wildcat. Scratch away there if you want, but IMO spending on aftermarket for invisible areas is about the same as lighting your money on fire.

I'm with ya on that, Doog!

Before I buy a kit I do my research.  I look at multiple reviews from different authors, and not just the same reviewer posting his/her article on multiple sites.  If the kit has horrible inaccuracies then the odds are I won't buy the kit to start with.  However, if the inaccuracies aren't all that great and the kit (as well as the AM set) doesn't cost me an arm and a leg I may pick it up. 

Personally, I absolutely hate PE.  It's the bane of my existence; but like demograts, they do have their place.  I've never purchased resin parts; but I do have some PE parts for the BMP-3 I'm working on as well as a turned aluminum barrel and AM tracks for the M109A6 I'm going to start on sometime early next year.

So, to make a short story long, I'll buy AM parts if A) the original kit was cheap enough, B) the AM detail is cheap enough and C) the new parts make a noticeable difference in the finished product.

sometimes,I really think screens over vents are necessary to finish off a build,simple but effective.I believe AM tracks and stowage have their place,and the turned barrel can really help.But yes you are right in many cases it is overdone.

But if you like to super detail,go for it,but a build can be very nice with little or no AM

T-Rexits good to read that you feel you are getting more "professional" . Its better to let your peers here congratulate you on  your skills . I'd say that someone like Sheperd Pain is a professional .

http://sheperdpaine.com/AboutShep.htm

I'd say that you are more likely to be a professional when you take that 1984 Monogram kit that you bought at a garage sale for $5 and build it up to a contest contender without using any after market stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with AM parts.  I have used many AM parts myself.  But often times AM parts can be used as a crutch.  In some cases the AM stuff is necessary to make a kit more realistic but in other cases AM is the easy way out.

Interesting.

Its neat hearing all your opinions on aftermarket parts.

But correct me if I'm wrong but do most models use aftermarket parts on old kit that lack in details or are incorrect.

I mean for my T-34 I didn't need to have added all those parts, the kits its self is quite nice, I just added those parts to get use to using aftermarket parts more often, and as you can seen, the suspension needs alot of fixing.

Ironically most of those parts were not meant for the T-34, but its cousin the SU-122. Because they both use the T-34 chassis, but I didn't know that the SU series use a larger back door, so I add to keep the kits part instead.

Here's the SU-122 looking like now

This is Tamiya's old 1979 kit, it only cost me 20$ so I figure it would be best to add aftermarket parts, such as resin side exhaust, aluminum barrel and the Friulmodel metal link tracks that I talked about last week.

I'm very glad the parts went well with the kit (especially the tracks, even if there the wrong model)

The only problem that I see is that you can't really see the aftermarket parts on the finish model, so it was kinda pointless to add them in the first place.

Wel thats the least of my worries, the salt weathering didn't work out well as you can see, I better focus on that.

Professional.....not unless you make a good living at it .

Master.....none of us here are masters....there are a few in the hobby, but they have been around for ages and know how to turn a rock into gold!!

Advanced....OK now there are a bunch of advance modelers here. You can use many definitions but you will know one when you see one judge for yourself

As for the aftermarket....I agree with the comments here. For me it depends on the kit, its accuracy and what might be available.

Rounds Complete!!

T-rex

Interesting.

Its neat hearing all your opinions on aftermarket parts.

But correct me if I'm wrong but do most models use aftermarket parts on old kit that lack in details or are incorrect.

Originally, AM parts came into being to up grade old 1970s era kits and bring them to 1980s standards. They also converted subjects from one "Mark" or "Ausf" to another not available in kit form.

Today, many AM sets exist just to exist. For instance, we've had some supreme Dragon kits hit the market with aluminum barrels, DS or Magic tracks, PE frets already added. These top notch kits can be built straight OOB into beautiful models. But as soon as the latest kit his the market, the AM companies start making tracks to replace the DS kit tracks, PE to use instead of the kit fret and an aluminum barrel to use instead of the kit's aluminum barrel. Gets rather ridiculous.

Whats your opinion on aftermarket parts?

They WON'T always make your model better, nbut the WILL alawys make it more expensive...

Too many modelers depend on too many of them... 

But correct me if I'm wrong but do most models use aftermarket parts on old kit that lack in details or are incorrect.

Dunno about "most modelers" (although it seems to be the trend among a bunch of them), but I don't... If I can't build it myself, find something laying around the house that will work just as good, or the like, then I don't think it's needed...

That said, I do use "after-market" parts, in a sense... I buy materials that are originally for another purpose than a model, but will work as an excellent model part.. Like engine/intake screens.. Brass screen can be bought in big sheets (11" x 21") in craft stores for 11/12 bucks... (How many screens/grates can ya make from that?) Piano wire, solder, stretched sprue, styrene rod, strip, and sheet, along with Plastruct shapes, as well as assorted "For Sale"-type signs are my main source of "after-market" parts, along with the junk box...

Seats? Epoxy putty cushions, styrene rod frames..  Sheet metal? Tea candles..  Grab-handles, lifting rings? Sprue.  It's far cheaper for me to cast my own resin parts, and I vacuform a lot of stuff too..  But I've got no problems using PE and resin parts, as long as they come in the kit...

 It all boils down to what you think is best, I guess, but there's a LOT of stuff out there that you really don't need to buy, because it's far cheaper and simple to make your own part(s)...  The amount of AM parts out there is staggering to me, a guy who was building this stuff before there WAS such a thing and if ther was,. it was a cottage industry, modelers making parts for themselves first, then selling them for a little bit of nothing to other modelers, for a specific kit....

I guess that's why I still do it, make my own that is...  I don't know any better...

 When should it be properly used on a kit?

When there's no alternative...

But I do so enjoy it when the guy with the super-detailed (with scratch-built parts) 25.00 model beats out the guy with 120.00-worth of after market parts on his 80.00 kit... 

This model is probably the best example of my philosophy on AM... At first glance it seems to be crusted up with every available AM part but much of it is scratch built and the rest was necessary to convey the vignette idea I had.

The zimmerit was done with Apoxy Sculpt putty ( I even made my own tool rather than buy a pre-made die) The storage rack on the back was made from scrap brass and the schurzen plates were made from .010 styrene along with all the bolts and crap on them shaved from scrap kit parts. The gun mantlet was bulked out with putty rather than a resin replacement because it was easy. On the flip side of that the fenders are entirely brass PE parts because that was the best way to convey the damage I wanted. The tool brackets are a mix of PE and scratch built parts to show many of the tools missing. The aluminum barrel came with the kit. I used Modelkastens tracks to replicate the thrown track. The PE schurzen hangers also came with the kit I believe.

In this example the old Italeri M-47 was doctored up. I used basic parts out of an Eduard PE set for tool brackets and such but by in large the details and damage added was done entirely from scratch. Again, AM tracks were used because of the damage and rotting rubber I wanted to replicate.The fenders were scratch built from aluminum sheeting purchased at a craft store.

In this last instance the sublime Tamiya Pz II required no aftermarket parts or scratch built parts at all. I did however use some resin stowage items to finish it off.

To me it just comes down to what am I trying to accomplish with a model. I NEVER build a model just to build an example of ____ vehicle or aircraft. There is always a reason and a story and if it takes $500 worth of AM parts to tell that story then so be it but if it can be done by scratch in a reasonable amount of time with as much accuracy then I cool with that route as well.

In conclusion I wouldn't say I'm a ''AM Snob'' but I will start  to use AM parts more often, but only if I want to make the kits more challenging if the kit is too easy, the SU-122 only took me 2 day to assemble it, thats why I added these.

My local HS has a clearance room that has model, parts, craft etc. ALL 20% OFF, so when I find a resin part as low as 3 $ I taken it as long as it could go on a model in my stash (like the t-34).

However, it is absolutely true that most AM part, (especially those that aren't on sell) are very expensive, just look how much it cost me for this decal sheet, and I probably shouldn't have bought those metal tracks.

No matter, all I'm saying is, if its really worth having, then its worth buying. But of course I will still be build kits just straight out of the box!

By the way, Nice Strug III dog!

Hi guys,

I'm still very much a beginner with PE and try to avoid using teeny tiny bits - a Dragon tool clasp is the smallest I'll go! I'm not a fan.

I like to replace plastic kit grab handles and hatch handles with bent copper wire - a definate improvement! I'll also fit wire to show conduit runs to headlights and Noteks etc. That makes a big difference.

My main upgrade requirements lie within tracks and barrels. A two piece barrel will definately be replaced with an RB barrel. They are a few quid and look superb in comparison to a moulded part so it's a no brainer!

Tracks - I love Friuls but they are expensive. I do think that 'sag' between return rollers looks great and Friuls do that perfectly - MK's are a PITA (imo) so I never use them. I tried them a few times but hated them. I'll use soft DS one piece tracks like I'm using on my current wip Tiger, Magic tracks and Friuls. The only time I'll ever use those nasty stiff Tamiya style rubber tracks are on a build with Schurzen for example where the top run is hidden.

Cheers, 

Ben

So...is this thread a discussion of professionalism, or of the viability of AM parts?

As for the first, I think 'professional' alludes to one whom is making a living out of a said activity, in this case modelling. Maybe what you meant to say was that you're improving your skills, and moving from en entrant hobbyist to an advanced one...

Personally, I think most of us will tend to follow this trend; start off with quick weekend builds, and move on to really caring about putting out a clean, blemish-less build, more advanced painting techniques, etc.

As for AM; as has oft been said, there are modelers who will take a bone-stock old kit and produce something spectacular to behold. AM is by no means a necessity.

My own personal preferences are to use almost every bit of AM that I can. Its a hobby for me, and probably the most fun part of the hobby is the building stage; adding AM parts greatly extends this. Keep in mind though, I'll try to add as much as I can using scratch-built parts. But I do find that there is a certain level of finesse and refinement that you will find in AM parts; often the details are just that much more delicate, even in the best of kits.

Very interesting opinions all. Valid point all around, as it sure depends on what gives you pleasure in your hobby.  I've built OOB to loaded with Resin, PE, and complete scratch built interiors. It's whatever strikes my fancy at the moment.  After a cut-away aircraft build with scratch-built interior that took months of work and research, the next one is most likely a OOB build. Or just finished some compltex Eduard kit, time to take it easy with a simple Monogram kit with no AM stuff.

May I?

I use AM a lot, but I very rarely buy it at retail. I shop show vendor tables, "buy and sell" forums, etc. I'm on a tight-ish budget, my choice. I also use a LOT of plastic stock, and do a fair amount of scratch-building. My one seroius indulgement is Friuls- can't be beat, in my humble opinion, for certain applications. I recently did the ancient Tamiya KT, using Friuls bought at a show, a CzechMaster barrel and mantlet out of the LHS' clearance box, and plastic stock. While not historically accurate, it works for me, and I think it came out as good as the newer Tamiya KT Porsche turret model that I did OOB (plus Friuls). I know a lot of my additions are over-scale and/or not totally accurate, but I enjoy this part of the hobby too much.

I do more kit-bashing than anything these days. I'm currently doing an Israeli M60 for a GB that has elements from EVERY M60 kit out the in it, plus a bit of AM, all bought from show vendor booths or clearance stock. I lose track of where the parts come from in some of the Shermans I do these days....

Long story short, I was born a tinkerer, and a tinkerer I will always be. I will however, never be a professional. I'm simply not good enough, but that's not affecting the pleasure I derive from this hobby at all. And to me, that's what it's all about.

From OOB to adding a few AM goodies and then to the next level...

Complete scratch built projects!

A few years back FSM showcased a fellow who scratch built aircraft in 1/15 scale out of aluminum!

It all depends on three factors:

Time - OOB is obviously the easiest on your hard earned hobby time

Budget - A few AM items can soon surpass the cost of the kit!

Skill - Scratch building utilizes common inexpensive materials, yet the cost is in time.

We here range from 'weekend enthusiasts' to 'professional modelers' (commissioned and or paid for finished scale miniatures and or articles of said builds) and everywhere in between.

Possibly ...................