Dragons Sd. Kfz.164 Bergepanzerwagen

Glad to be of service! The MBA classes are rolling right along, 2 weeks left in my Stats class and will be glad when it's over. It has done a number on my mean hours of bench time per week and significantly reduced the probability of completing more than 4 models this year...but we'll see! After this only 4 more classes left for a target completion date of the program at the end of March 2013, so I'm looking forward to that for sure.

As always Bill you are the answer guy. Thanks for coming through.

I hope your MBA class is going well.

You are looking at the wonderful "extra' that DML provides in their Pz IV kits...they are half-wing nuts and full wing nuts. The half-wing nuts were used to secure the "flaps" on the engine compartment side air intakes when they were in the lowered position but they are molded pretty "tall" so if you use them, make sure to trim them down a bit. The full wing nuts are just there...no real purpose for them.

Thats a reliefe, that wheel could have been hard to fix.

If i am seeing it right, part 58 has a tiny hole in the end. Is that right, i am just trying to think what could go through that.

Hey Bish...The instruction sheet does NOT have them highlighted as "do not use".

As for the wheel I hit the wrong photo editing button. The bloat tool I believe.

You got me stumped. have you checked the contents sheet to see if these parts are not for use.

Is it me, or have you melted your idler wheel, part 35. that doesn't look right.

I'm stumped!

The Dragon instructions make no mention of parts A56 and A58. So I ask the armor guru's...

What are they?

Where do they go on my Berge?

Thanks

Hi Bish! I use Krylon Red Primer. Never a problem.

Damn, i had forgotten about this build. Dragons instructions can be a bit hit and miss. She is looking good, what did you use for the red primer.

Small update on my Bergepanzerwagen. First........Dragon's instructions are SUBPAR to say the least.

I have encountered numerous delays because of parts not listed or shown opposite of what the instruction's show. Oh well.

I have started work on the "crane" and hope to have that mounted so I can lay down the base coat.

                                iBuild148, great score,been looking for a deal on one of those for some time. Hope you share the build with all of us. Panzertracts #16 has a very brief description and no actual photos,what info it does give states that a total of 21 bergepanzer were assembled from vehicles sent to the rear for major repairs or overhaul. And gives a short list of units known to have recieved them. The Jib crane had a rating of 2 tons,probably more than adequate for lifting an engine or trans,and perhaps even a turret. But looking at it it would seem quite impractical for the previously mentioned tasks. it does not have the reach that would likely be required in such tasks,although it is only my opinion.For every degree of angle a boom is stretched out it looses in  its lift capacity.I would venture to say that it came in quite handy for moving the unditching timber,lifting a sprocket into place and other simple tasks,after all can you imagine the effort it would take to swing that jib with a transmission or the like hanging from the hook.EEEKKK.

                                 I hope what ive said doesnt take away from the thrill of the build,and not saying any of the other info. given is wrong.Or that the info. from Panzertracts #16 is correct either. If you would like the specs and such from this book I can send them your way somehow.Scan or such.Happy building.

Thanks again Bish. Those links are helpful.

wbill - As always you are a wealth of infomation and I had a feeling that these were not mass produced.

Thanks for the info. I think starting with the panther book sounds a good idea, given the number of pantehr kits i have in the stash.

Sounds like these books fit in with the Panzer Tracts series. I have been getting a few of the smaller schiffer books lately, which are more photo heavy. So something more techincal sounds ideal.

Bish,

That depends on what you want them for. If you want them for text information/descriptions and diagrams/line drawings, they are an excellent resource to have. If you are looking more for a photo reference, then these aren't going to be very helpful. They are definitely what I would describe as a "technical" resource and I have several in the series but only for those vehicles families/classes that I have a high level of interest in. As you mention, they are pricey depending on where you source them from. I don' t have the Panther one in my reference library as I'm not that big of a "big cat" fan so can't comment on its specific qualities.

Some in the Spielberger series are more useful than others...for example when I got the 35(t) and 38(t) and Variants, I was surprised to see that it had a lot (nearly 1/3 of the book) of info on Czech military hardware (1920-1945) that was produced at Skoda but had nothing at all to do with the 35(t) and 38(t) family of vehicles per se. It was good info, but totally unexpected. I recommend doing a little checking on the editions you want before commiting the $$$.

Just to go slightly off track. Bill, are those books any good. I do have any of that series yet, but planning on getting the panther one next month. I know they are a bit pricey. Would you recomend them.

Spielberger's Pz IV and Variants has a very brief (and no photos) section on the Bergepanzer IV. All it mentions is that as of October 1944 Bergepanzer IVs were taken from repaired stocks and 36 were made available to the troops in 1944. That's all it says...so we are talking about a rare beast in that regard. I would imagine that the crane would be capable of lifting turrets and engines on a III or IV no problem. Otherwise there's not much reason for fitting them with it...vehicles were being fitted with Pilzen at this time to facilitate fitting the necessary cranes to the vehicles themselves as well, so you don't need a massive crane to achieve that objective.

The german word "bergen" means to retrieve, or to pull something out of a tight situation - don't think I have the right translation. Anyhow, I'd probably translate "Bergepanzer" to something like "wrecker-tank". The newer M88 was called a Bergepanzer in Germany. I'm not 100% sure, but I also think the crane was capable of lifting a tank engine - it doesn't really takes so much equipment, and they had a stable base (the Bergepanzer's body) and used chain instead of rope, so I'd say it's probable. Hope it helps, have a nice day

Paweł

This might be more useful. Its a review of the kit, but he does give a small background history. As it says, the crane here is the same one used on Panther and Tigers. This isn't the recovery versions, but standard tank.s later models had sockets on the turret. The crane could be attached to these so the tank could remove its own engine. that being the case, this crane would deffintaly be able to lift a lighter Pz IV engine.

http://modelarmour.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=379:dragon-bergepanzerwagen-iv-&catid=37:kits&Itemid=60

Hope this helps.

Just done a goggle search, and the only results i can find are for the kit you have. Even AchtungPanzer has nothing. I notice from pics of a completed kit that it carries an A frame and has a modified tow hook. But it has no winch or spade to pull out stuck vehicles, as seen on the Bergepanther. But given the A frame and tow hook, it would deffinatly have been used to tow damaged/broken down vehicles to a safe area, and then help to repair it. this link may help a little.

http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=SquawkBox&file=index&req=viewtopic&topic_id=183399

It may have been capable of lifting an engine, i am not 100% sure. I don't know its capacity off hand and the weight of a Pz IV engine. Failing an engine, i am sure it would have been able to lift other items, such as a transmission. It may also have lifted of the decks prior to engine maintenance being carried out. When i drove warriors, we much preferred it if the REME warrior could lift our decks rather than having to do it by hand.

Thanks Bish for the nuggets of information. You do raise another question/s.

If it wasn't capable of lifting an engine what was the booms lifting capability?

What was its primary use used for?

This was a recovery vehicle, while the crane was used to remove items from other vehicle. I am not sure if it could lift the engine from other tanks, but it is possable. I don't have any referance at hand at the moment, but i am sure someone can give you more details. I want this kit myself, so look forward to seeing it built up.

Any German vehicle with the word 'Berge' at the start is used for the same purpose. The one exception being the Bergetiger.