Preparations for my next build; Help Needed - Dragons LAH Pz. IV Ausf. G:

I believe February of 1943 was the official change to Dunkelgelb. Sorry, I can't help on the decals. So if you want a winter scheme in 1943, grey for early 1943 and DY for late 1943 would be my best guess.

Eric is correct, the changeover was Feb 43. So yes, you can do it grey. The white wash was easy to remove, it wore off quite easily as well. Images seem to show either an area around the markings that look like it had been masked, or where the white goes right o the numbers, it looks like these have been neatly painted around.

Hmmm,

So, it seems if I were wanting to build a true LAH Pz. IV I'd need to paint it DY and use the red decals. If I wanted a grey basecoat I'd have to build it like Bill and use the white decals as he did?

Food for thought?

Cheers guys - I am correct in my thinking?

Ben

If the LAH vehicle is for Karkov, then no, i think Grey would be ok. I find it hard to believe that even the LAH could have gotten DY vehciles so early. Maybe by the end of the campaign, but not at the start.

The Third battle of Karkov begain on 19th Feb. The order to swicth to Dark yellow was issued on the 18th Feb.

Jean Restayn states in Fedorowicz's The Battle of Kharkov, Winter 1942-1943 ; "Much of the artwork depicting the Panzer IV's of this period incorrectly show the vehicles with a panzer-grau base. In fact, the Panzer IV G's delivered to the 1. SS-Panzer-Division "Leibstandarte" at the time had a sand yellow base."

 Waldemar Trojca also depicts them in this manner, as seen here;

Despite the official start time of February 18th, 1943, for Army Directive HM 1942, Number 181, (the switch from Panzergrau to Dunkelgelb), concerning camouflage at Kharkov, Restayn further states; "...from the summer and fall of 1942 on, practically all new vehicles were delivered to the front in Dunkelgelb."  He then continues with a more thorough description of the various colors used during this campaign.  Again; "More complex than originally thought."...Please see page 4 Battle of Kharkov for the complete descriptions, as they are too lengthy to list here.

Missing-lynx has had numerous threads over the years concerning this topic, you can search their archives for more info;

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1192676978/dml+panzer+IV+G+box+art+mistake

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1339883226/Colour+of+the+WSS+Panzer+IV+G+on+Kharkov

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1290416004/1290576612/Some+questions+about+Panzer+IV+ausf+G+around+Kharkov+in+early+1943.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1298513815/Panzer+IV+Ausf.G+Decal+vs+Reality+--+Help!

http://www.network54.com/Forum/110741/thread/1278165088/my+first+hairspary+experiment+-+Pz+IV+ausf+G+Kharkhov

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1173309475/LSSAH+PzIV+F2%27s

http://www.network54.com/Forum/47207/thread/1226008891/1226046460/Color+of+1st-3rd+SS+Panzer+4+Gs+at+Kharkov

In this photo, Dunkelgrau appears to show through the divisional symbol;

I'd best throw in Jentz and Doyle for good measure. Here is their view as the vehicles would have appeared earlier in France during their refit;

Granted, this image depicts an earlier style "F2" globular muzzle brake, but technically still a "G', (see caption on image).

The general consensus on M-L seems to be against the use of red numbers, FWTW. "I think the red number thing started in SS Armour by Stern, which manufacturers [ and other authors / illustrators ] seem compelled to continue with." -Steve Ballantyne. 

Colorized photos, difficulty identifying units, disputed tactical number colors, some in gray base coat, some in yellow,...or not.... Tom Cockle and others bring up the possibility of Tropen Scheme being used......it's a whole big can o' worms.  Personally, I don't know how much faith I'd put in either Restayn or Trojca, but I throw them out here just to add fuel to the fire...

So.......there you go. Take your pick. You would be hard pressed to pick a messier topic.....

I started this kit build last year (I'm painfully slow) and had the same questions.  First of all, the numbers were NOT red.  I've looked at two dozen pics of this unit for early '43 and the numbers are either black or basecoat/panzer grey.  Some vehicles in the unit appear to have DY under oats, but just as many are pretty clearly panzer grey.  

Cheers Ixion and FM,

Thanks for going to all that trouble IXION and getting them links for me - that was really very good of you and greatly appreciated!

I'll look at them properly on Friday as I'm off then for Easter and plan to start the build then.

I've decided to paint it using the Pz. Grey basecoat and use the white '332' decals. I'll whitewash her and leave it well applied, just lightly worn - no doubt things will change!

It's my first Pz. IV so I'm going to town on this one. No Friuls this time (assuming I can get the Magics to build up okay) and just an RB replacement barrel.

I'm looking forward to this one!

Cheers fellas,

Like I say, work starts this Easter Weekend

Ben