Whats under an O.D.S. Abrams sand colored paint ?

When the tanks from Europe were painted tan, it was sprayed directly over the factory applied NATO 3-color camouflage paint. That paint was designed to resist chemicals so the new paint didn't stick very well. It would often chip off in big flakes.

Thanks ,Rob,That's good to know.I'll be more aggressive with the chipping,especially in the non-skid areas [ which as I'm sure you know ] is a substantial area on an Abrams.  keith r.

Weren't the 24th ID vehicles pre painted in Sand stateside full time, as that was their designated AO for wartime operations? The Mid East. I know pretty much everybody else repainted their stuff in theater over the Tri Color NATO camo or in the case of some of the Marines pre positioned stuff, repainted over MERDC camo.

Didn't the 24th (and most of the CONUS Army) still have M1IPs when Desert Shield began in August 1990? Even the 197th Infantry Brigade from Ft. Benning (which took the place of the 24th's ARNG roundout brigade) took M60A3TTS tanks into theater. They transitioned to M1A1s while in Saudi Arabia during Desert Shield.

In 1990, the M1A1 was a very rare tank in the US. Divisions like the 4th (Carson), 5th (Polk) and 9th (Lewis) still had M60A3TTS. I think 1st Cav and 2nd Armor at Hood were the ones that might have had M1A1s before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.

The stateside units received M1A1 tanks from POMCUS sites in Europe and from USAREUR units that had just rolled over from M1A1s to M1A1 heavies. I personally sent 60 tanks (58 tanks from 5-77 Armor and 2 float tanks from 202nd Support Battalion) from Mannheim to Bremerhaven that we had just turned in (they were less than a year old) when we got newer tanks. Those tanks and tanks from our sister battalion, 3-77 AR, went straight to Saudi along with hundreds of other tanks from Germany.

I did a quick look in a couple of my Desert Shield/Storm books (Squadron's Ground War Desert Storm &  Motor Books' Desert Shield) and both have photos of 24th ID M1IP tanks (in sand paint) being loaded on ships and loaded onto trucks in country. Those tanks were turned in prior to Desert Storm and they used M1A1s that were repainted sand over the original 3-color.

Yes, I had read how 24th had M1IP and M2A1/M3A1 when they deployed to Saudi. And how they traded up for newer versions before the war started. I did not know that the Dollar 97 took M60A3s there.... wow. I left Polk at the end of 87, and at that time we still had M60A1s! The armor battalions were supposed to get their first M1s (IP I presume) in Spring of '88. when I visited my old unit at NTC during their rotation there  in Summer '88, the tankers did have M1s, but the Infantry was still in M113s.

Here's a photo of one of the 24th's M1IPs (these tanks did not go into combat) that was sent to Saudi. They got new tanks once in country. 

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=65103&d=1233170783 

Again,Rob & Stik, thanks. More light shed.As I'm using "Echelon" decals for Marine tanks [ old habits die hard ],The addt'l info does help. keith r.

There is a great Concord Book, "Sword in the Sand" published shortly after Desert Storm that has lots of great photos of Marince Corps armor. Mostly M60s, but some of the M1s as well. I know it's no longer in print, but I got a copy off of Ebay for a good price a couple years back.

rudedog

Again,Rob & Stik, thanks. More light shed.As I'm using "Echelon" decals for Marine tanks [ old habits die hard ],The addt'l info does help. keith r.

The Marines used borrowed M1A1s (no USMC fittings) from those Army pre-po stocks. They also took a bunch of M60A3TTS tanks from the boys from Benning so each of their M60A1 companies had tanks with thermal night vision.

IIRC, three USMC battalions went into combat with M60A1 (and a good number of A3s) and two USMC battalions used the borrowed M1A1s. In return, they loaned the 82nd ABN a company's worth of LAV-25 (14 each) plus one LAV-R.

On the flip side of that.... my tank company in the 278th ACR, which had 13 tan tanks and one tri-color NATO for a number of years, had them all painted tri-color NATO woodland the year before we were due to go to NTC in 2002! It was kind of funny seeing as they needed to be painted for a long time, why not wait another year?

Of note.. when they are repainted a different color from the original there will still be places that do not get repainted. Usually the inside of the hatches, and the sides of the gun mantle that are not exposed during the painting for example. Plus over spray on the rubber of the road wheels is common. About the only thing they mask-off are the vision blocks and the clear plastic road wheel hubs. I was on an M1A1 fresh from the paint shop and the mounting pins for the 50 cal machinegun were painted in place. It was a pain to get them out the first time to mount the gun.

I found the book on amazon & ebay from 16.99 to 24.99.It's worth me picking up a copy as I'm planning on doing somemore Iraq Dio's.I've been doing WWII for so long it's time to change my tack.So,thanks Stik & Rob for your help.I envy you all,as I served as an utilities engineer in the Corp's most boring period in it's history/1977-1981.Though,I count my blessings as my home unit,2nd Radio Bn. was always TADed to 8th Marines & I almost re-upped.I'm sure you all recall where they ended up a short while later,Beirut.I'm sure some of my Bud's were in the barracks when it went.And Magnum,that's a good point about the parts that don't get painted during scheme changes.I had friends in our motor pool & remember how rushed a job they did when masking & shooting the equipment.If memory serves me,the Corps was only 97,000 strong during my years so everybody was worked to exhaustion. Very helpful,guys.Semper fi , keith r.

The Carter years... you have my respect and sympathy... I think you will enjoy the book quite a bit. Lots of great personal stories from that war in addition to tons of super photos of all kinds of stuff, Marine and Iraqi.

Thanks for the sympathy,Stik,it was needed.We sill had Nam era M-151's,Duece & 1/2's ,etc.By the end of my tour Reagan was in & gave a huge pay raise to the military.So much so that it near matched civilian wages.That's why I almost re-upped.Again,I appreciate the tip on the 'Sword in the sand'.On it's way.  keith r.

We still had those things in Regular Army '87 ;-) Steel pots until that summer... But training budgets were pretty good. Never was issued an M-16A2 until in the late 90s in the Guard...

Steel pots at Knox during OBC in 1987, M151A2 Jeeps until Jan 1989 in Germany and M60A3TTS tanks until summer 1989. Each M1A1 had an M16A2 rifle as part of the tank. We still used .45s during Desert Storm.

I see I wasn't alone w/ old gear,guys. I do still would have preferred a .45 over a 9 mil. in C.Q.B. ,as I qualled high with it & it does put down what you hit.Guess I'll never know.  keith r.