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Panzers, 1939

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  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Panzers, 1939
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:08 PM

I found these photos taken during the parade for German victory in Poland in 1939. They were taken by Hugo Jaeger who sold them to Life Magazine in 1965. It is interesting to note that on some of the vehicles, a brown camouflage pattern can arguably be seen there, on other items, it hard to argue one was ever there. Just food for thought...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:56 PM

Fascinating to contrast the track color to that of the exhaust muffler.

Further, the contract between the roadwheel tyres, and the tires on the trucks & PAKs.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:33 PM

Yes, there is some very good coloring to reference here. The wheeled vehicles appear cleaner, more recently painted, and possibly having the brown/gray two tone schemes. But the PAKs and Panzers look like they are just back from the front after a quick wash.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, July 16, 2013 11:51 PM

Nice pics Stik. The two tone scheme has cropped up on here as few times. It was actually in use up to and including the Western Campaign in 1940. wbill has done a lot of researche into this. But it is often hard to see on B&W photo's.

Interesting that the crosses still seem to be white.

''I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so''

On the bench: AMT STAP/ Youngs Miniatures 1/10th Templar Bust

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 12:00 AM

Exactly Bish. Orders did not mandate an overall Gray scheme until after France had fallen. Yet on the Mk .IVs and Mk.IIs here, there really is no trace of the brown camo color.  I just post these for discussion purposes here. There were taken in 1939 shortly after the Polish campaign, so the white crosses are in order. And I do not doubt the research of wbill and others on this subject.  This is just great stuff to find and discuss here.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 12:16 AM

I was under the impression that the crosses were painted yellow during the campaign as they are proving to be great aiming points for Polish gunners.

I see where your coming from on the two tone, sorry, I misunderstood your first post, my fault, just got out of bed.

''I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so''

On the bench: AMT STAP/ Youngs Miniatures 1/10th Templar Bust

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 12:26 AM

No worries Bish. I will be in the same boat in about 10 hours here. Yes I have seen photos and read of the yellow cross overpainting as well. Who knows if they repainted the crosses white for the parade (I'm sure that you did one or two of those in your career and have experienced the clean up for those), or if that was a unit that did not do the yellow overpaint.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Cat Central, NC
Posted by Bronto on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 6:04 AM

Good pictures! Also note how dark the colors are, not the more "blueish" that seems to be the trend with modelers these days.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 6:13 AM

real nice pics,thanks for posting

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:35 PM

The issue of the yellow vs. white crosses isn't a conflict. Many of the 'yellow' crosses where the white crosses smeared with mud to tone them down vs. actually painted over. Others were repainted, so it's a mixed bag. Not surprising to see white crosses on the 'parade' vehicles. It's also not a contradiction to be unable to make out the two-tone scheme on some vehicles vs. others...once you get a coat of light dust on a vehicle like you see in those Pz IVs and IIs, the two-tone virtually disappears unless the lighting is just right or the angle catches the underlying contrast. The vehicles in the first pic where you can clearly see the two-tone look like they just came out of the shower they're so clean, but even with them you have to look very close to see the dark brown demarcation with the gray. Big Smile

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, July 17, 2013 8:56 PM

Yes, for some reason the wheeled vehicles are much cleaner, darker, and the camo can be barely discerned compared to the panzers and cannon.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Gothenburg
Posted by JohanT on Thursday, July 18, 2013 5:26 PM

Hi,

I am looking for color picture examples of the 2 tone wherever I  can find it.

I am not sure that I see anything but shadows of the trees in these pictures?

Thank you for sharing Stickpusher, great reference!

Very Best Regards

Johan

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, July 18, 2013 5:32 PM

Youre welcome Johan. On the top photo, the vehicle closest to the camera, there does not appear to be any shadows, and I can swear I can see a very faint contrast of a different color on the back plate.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Dripping Springs, TX, USA
Posted by RBaer on Thursday, July 18, 2013 6:56 PM

If I may:

1) Color film back then did weird stuff, so keep that in mind when looking at absolute hues. There's been several discussions about this on various forums, all very interesting. It pertains to OD too.

2) I don't see any rust or chipping......  (tongue firmly in cheek here).

Apprentice rivet counter.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Thursday, July 18, 2013 7:06 PM

You can bet the vehicles were cleaned up and parts repainted for the parade. As RBaer said, don't swear by the color pictures, too many variables to throw off the true shades.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Thursday, July 18, 2013 9:03 PM

thanks for the upload I always look forward to see what you have dug up from the life photo archives.

Clint

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