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A PzKpfw III Ausf. L armed with the 5cm PaK 38 ?

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  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by Ixion on Sunday, April 6, 2014 3:50 PM

OK, it looks like this;

...is officially the VK 36.01(H) with the Waffe 0725. Only one VK 36.01 chassis was produced and  ended up as towing tractor, "while the 6 turrets produced for it became part or the Atlantic wall", (However, I believe the 6 turrets used on the Atlantic Wall were actually VK 30.01 turrets mounted on a H246 bunker, such as seen at RN68 at Omaha Beach.)

A VK 30.01 turret at Omaha;

The other thing that doesn't make any sense here is that this vehicle is a hybrid;

It has spaced armor on the superstructure front and mantlet, as a Ausf L (or later), but it still has the turret vision port, which was deleted during Ausf J production. This would make the vehicle a rebuilt and up-armored Ausf J. The color artwork shown on; tanks-encyclopedia.com/.../Panzer_III.php  appears to be suspect, as it shows turret schurzen as well, but this image shows no hint of schurzen or it's mounts on the turret, yet appears to be in new condition. Then again, I'm not convinced that this photo isn't doctored to begin with, due to it's low resolution and strange looking muzzle brake, which appears almost hand-drawn.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by Ixion on Saturday, April 5, 2014 6:07 PM

But it doesn't look right for the 75/55 PAK 41 either;

I have no further info. Confused other than this Italian page with a H.L. Doyle drawing I've never seen before and don't know what it is, though the page says Waffe 0725;

http://freeforumzone.leonardo.it/lofi/Waffe-0725/D7911207.html

Then there is this site that states an Ausf M was used for the PaK 38;

http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/tanks/ww2-tanks-germany-1/35151/view/pz_kpfw_iii_ausf_m_mit_5_cm_pak-38/

But the hull escape hatches were deleted during Ausf L production and the turret vision port was deleted during Ausf J production, so this drawing is wrong to begin with, unless it was a rebuilt and up-armored Ausf J.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Saturday, April 5, 2014 4:22 PM

Ixion

On page 59 of Panzer III and it's Variants, there is one sentence; "On April 4 1942 Hitler was shown the Panzer III with the 50mm PAK 38 gun." Page 53 shows this grainy mock-up photo. There was also the proposed 75/55 taper-bore Waffe 0725 variant, but this was never realized due to the shortage of Tungsten for the AP projectiles. Other sources state this photo as being the Waffe 0725.

I think you might be right.  This picture could be a PzKpfw III Ausf L mit Waffe 0725.  I have read in several sources that a prototype was build for experiments.  The muzzle brake doesn't look like the type used on the PaK 38.

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    August 2011
Posted by Jumo213A1 on Saturday, April 5, 2014 8:27 AM

Thank you guys for your kind support !

I have found this page with another drawing of it, this time it is called a late production Ausf. L .

Scroll down to the 19th tank picture the text is dating it around the battle of Kursk so at least I seem to have some kind of a time line...

tanks-encyclopedia.com/.../Panzer_III.php

  • Member since
    September 2013
Posted by blackdog62 on Thursday, April 3, 2014 7:49 PM

I really like the panzer 3  and with a longer barrel even nicer. I prefer all the early mid war panzer.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by Ixion on Thursday, April 3, 2014 3:58 PM

On page 59 of Panzer III and it's Variants, there is one sentence; "On April 4 1942 Hitler was shown the Panzer III with the 50mm PAK 38 gun." Page 53 shows this grainy mock-up photo. There was also the proposed 75/55 taper-bore Waffe 0725 variant, but this was never realized due to the shortage of Tungsten for the AP projectiles. Other sources state this photo as being the Waffe 0725.

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Thursday, April 3, 2014 1:41 PM

I could not find anything on that one. Like I said, it probably never went further than the drawing stage. There is nothing keeping you from building a "what if" however.  Cool

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Oromocto, Canada
Posted by Gun Tech on Wednesday, April 2, 2014 2:08 PM

I will have to dig through my references when I go back home today, but I don't thing it was ever done.  The drawing stage may have been the furthest this idea went. 

Mounting the 5cm Pak 38 ordnance in a turret would have involve a major redesign of breech ring, recoil mechanism and recuperator assembly to accomodate the more restrictive operating area.  I don't know how long the recoil of the Pak 38 was, but it looks to me as if it had only one recoil mechanism and recuperator assembly (combined), which normally involves an overall longer recoil course. 

Jean-Michel    "Arte et Marte"

  • Member since
    August 2011
A PzKpfw III Ausf. L armed with the 5cm PaK 38 ?
Posted by Jumo213A1 on Wednesday, April 2, 2014 11:54 AM

Hi there, I've found a poor drawing of this tank calling it an early production Ausf. L a kind of a interim solution before the 5cm KwK 39 L/60 was installed.

Since I have a crush on the German WW2 double baffle muzzle brakes this seems to be an easy conversion, just exchange the kits gun barrel and add an aftermarket one like from Griffon 5cm KwK 39/1 L/60 that's it.

This would finally be a different Pz3 in my collection, probably in everyone's.

Does somebody have more details about this one, especially if it really was a Ausf. L or not?

Thanks ... 

 

 

 

 

 

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