WITTMANN'S TIGER

If you give me the specific tank number you are looking for, I can give you the scheme (Wittmann modeler here)

Will you be building one of his Tigers or his Stug lll "Buzzard"?

Erock68 hi
can you tell me his villers bocage tank details please? ...the one where he went on a bit of a spree at the expense of, i think , the british...
also, what tank did he have at kursk by the way?
regards,
nick
ps sorry diggeraone to "hijack" your post!

EROCK: do you know anything about nemisis tiger comander Carrius? I am looking for his Jagdtiger # , and cannot find it to save my life !

QUOTE: Originally posted by spector822002 EROCK: do you know anything about nemisis tiger comander Carrius? I am looking for his Jagdtiger # , and cannot find it to save my life !

carius commanded a jagdtiger?? if that's the case then i'd love to do it!!
details please mister erock68!!
n

Here's something to get you started....

http://www.panzerace.net/main/normandy.asp?page=2

I am on my way to work right now but, I will get more stuff posted for ya'

QUOTE: EROCK: do you know anything about nemisis tiger comander Carrius? I am looking for his Jagdtiger # , and cannot find it to save my life !

I don't have too much info on Carrius but, I do think you are correct about his Jagdtiger.

Let me see if I can find anything.

At the end of the war, Otto Carrius was commander of 2nd co. sPazJagAbt512 which was sent to defend Rhine river , and later surrendered to us forces April 15 1945 They had a few small skirmishes , not much of a factor in the war at all . But Otto is still one of the bigger aces of WW2. And he is still alive if iI am not correct !

Carius was still alive in the late 90's, most likely the reason you don't see him represented in figures, US Celebrity Rights Act protects likenesses for 50 years after death. Wittman of course was done by a Hurricane rocket in '44, a little bit of the ol pay out for the british tank column at Villiers Bocage ( shouldn't line up like that boys! ).

QUOTE: Originally posted by spector822002 EROCK: do you know anything about nemisis tiger comander Carrius? I am looking for his Jagdtiger # , and cannot find it to save my life !

There doesn't seem to be too much info on his 'Hunting Tiger', it was late in the war, around the Ruhr Pocket, and alot was going on. He only mentions how he hates it, and it's no more than a gun carriage, but again there was alot happening then and it was pretty close to his capture.

QUOTE: Originally posted by ausf Carius was still alive in the late 90's, most likely the reason you don't see him represented in figures, US Celebrity Rights Act protects likenesses for 50 years after death. Wittman of course was done by a Hurricane rocket in '44, a little bit of the ol pay out for the british tank column at Villiers Bocage ( shouldn't line up like that boys! ).

thought it was a firefly he didn't see/know was in the area...i read a ton of stuff from the rivet-counters over on missing-lynx (they are good really! i'm not knocking them!) and they said it was def a tank to tank kill, not aircraft....i'll try to dig up the link later...
regards,
nick

QUOTE: Originally posted by nmayhew QUOTE: Originally posted by ausf Carius was still alive in the late 90's, most likely the reason you don't see him represented in figures, US Celebrity Rights Act protects likenesses for 50 years after death. Wittman of course was done by a Hurricane rocket in '44, a little bit of the ol pay out for the british tank column at Villiers Bocage ( shouldn't line up like that boys! ). thought it was a firefly he didn't see/know was in the area...i read a ton of stuff from the rivet-counters over on missing-lynx (they are good really! i'm not knocking them!) and they said it was def a tank to tank kill, not aircraft....i'll try to dig up the link later... regards, nick

I'm with you on this one Nick. From what I've read in the last while, the documentation available does point to a Firefly of the Northamptonshire Yeomanry. Further records show the RAF wasn't active in that area at that specific time. Many credit the German propaganda machine for insisting it was a Typhoon so as to not have the great Wittman being taken out by an Allied tank.

oops, forgot!![:0]
thanks for that link erock68
regards,
nick

QUOTE: Originally posted by shermanfreak QUOTE: Originally posted by nmayhew QUOTE: Originally posted by ausf Carius was still alive in the late 90's, most likely the reason you don't see him represented in figures, US Celebrity Rights Act protects likenesses for 50 years after death. Wittman of course was done by a Hurricane rocket in '44, a little bit of the ol pay out for the british tank column at Villiers Bocage ( shouldn't line up like that boys! ). thought it was a firefly he didn't see/know was in the area...i read a ton of stuff from the rivet-counters over on missing-lynx (they are good really! i'm not knocking them!) and they said it was def a tank to tank kill, not aircraft....i'll try to dig up the link later... regards, nick I'm with you on this one Nick. From what I've read in the last while, the documentation available does point to a Firefly of the Northamptonshire Yeomanry. Further records show the RAF wasn't active in that area at that specific time. Many credit the German propaganda machine for insisting it was a Typhoon so as to not have the great Wittman being taken out by an Allied tank.

Sorry guys, I guess my data is a bit outdated, these were older books from the library, thanks for the update. It's neat that even sixty years later, new info comes to light.

hey ausf don't be silly!! no apology needed!! (this isn't missing-lynx after all!!)
they do have some seriously knowledgeable people over there though...
just been on m-l and couldn't work out how to search their archived threads...but i'm working on it!
n

I want to thank you all for the info,as for Carrius I will try to dig up so info.I have a book called Tiger 1 on the western front and will soon get Tiger 1 on the eastern front.Wittmann was ossum wasn't he and because of what he did at Villers-Bocage,the Brittish changed there tank policies.They went with this,if you see one Tiger 1 then send 4 Shermans or Churchhills to fight and expect to lose 3 of them.Digger

More fuel to the fire on Whittmans death. I thought in another thread that the total`destruction of his Tiger could only have come from a rocket. Again just hearsay.

QUOTE: Originally posted by tigerman More fuel to the fire on Whittmans death. I thought in another thread that the total`destruction of his Tiger could only have come from a rocket. Again just hearsay.

tigerman,
that's one of the tidbits I thought I read somewhere as well. I think the tiger guys like the air-superiority story, the sherman guys the firefly.(personally, I lean towards a rocket hit on the deck more likely than even a 17 pounder head on. )
By the way, I waiting for delivery on my 1/16 R/C Tamiya M4 (couldn't afford the TIGER )
did I stir something up?

Here are some links on Otto Von Carius:

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/gen4.htm

http://homepage.tinet.ie/~nightingale/otto_carius.htm

http://www.angelfire.com/goth/bobtank/carius.html

http://web135.kserver7.erfurt12.de/index_at.html?tip_carius.html&1

Thanks for the links Eric and Dwight.
mark956

Just to continue adding fuel to the fire, so to speak. Two sure fire ways to completely destroy a Tiger.
1) rockets from a Typhoon would certainly be good
2) internal explosion caused by the ammunition it was carrying going up in one big bang would also do the deed.

According to the records of the action that day, the Firefly was behind and the Tiger was in a nose up position. Penetration was made through the top of the engine deck near the turret. The internal explosion that resulted lifted the turret completely off the hull.

Who knows for sure ..... I know I don't know 100%. But the description of the action certainly fits the location, the time, and the end results.

Sherm,

It would have been better if the Tiger broke down on its way to that location. It could have been spared.

Why don't them tigers break down when you need them to do so?

Isn't it just typical, that everyone wants a piece of any 'famous action'. Firely, Typhoon Hurricane............little boy with slingshot!!!!

It's just like Von Ricthtofen (The Red Baron), Aussie diggers claim to have shot him with a ground based MG, and the Brit airforce claims he was killed in an air to air tussel with their Sopwith Camel wonder plane, piloted by (shock Horror not a Brit) Canadian Roy Brown. One bullet wound up through his side into his chest, whilst he was flying very low to the ground......hmmm, just how low was this Sopwith Camel? - like parked on the tarmac???

One day they will recrate the happenings of Wittmanns last days by computer,like they did with Ricthtofens death.The concludition with the Red Baron was that he probily shot himself down and not Brown.They concluded that Ricthtofen was was shooting at Brown and missed then went into a dive after Brown barreledrolled up.As Ricthtofen doove down and under,he was struck by one of his own bullets.This was on the History channel about a few years ago and had readed it in book about famous aces of the wars.So this will happen to Wittmann to,the Tiger 1 had a record of break downs and leaking fuel inside the fighting compartment.Digger

Theres certainly heaps of info on Wittman.Has anyone seen the series on the History Channel called simply "Tanks" ?. It was specifically about tanks of WW2 ,mostly German , and they had an entire episode entirely about Wittman. Lots of interesting stuff.As for Carius, I think Tamiya have a small kit of figures specifically for modelling Carius' tank.
Now I know I'm gonna sound like a grumbly old cynic but is it remotely possible to model/paint a 1/35 figure and have it finish up looking like a particular guy in a panzer uniform and not make a microscopic brush error and finish up having it look like anyone of a thousand other guys in a panzer uniform ? I must have run out of imagination.....
Jeff

QUOTE: From what I've read in the last while, the documentation available does point to a Firefly of the Northamptonshire Yeomanry. Further records show the RAF wasn't active in that area at that specific time.

I am with Robert on this one. After all the books and sites I have visited, the scenario above is the most common.

QUOTE:

Finally, it was proven that Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed by fire from tanks of "A" Squadron of Northamptonshire Yeomanry. British Firefly crew observed advancing Tigers and opened fire at when Tigers were some 800m away. According to original War Diary of "A" Squadron, at 12:20, 3 Tigers were moving towards the Squadron and were destroyed at 12:40, 12:47 and 12:52 without any losses. After the first Tiger was destroyed at 12:40, second one returned fire but was hit and blew up in a loud explosion. Following that, third Tiger was knocked out after receiving two hits. Wittmann's Tiger was destroyed as second at 12:47 by British Sherman VC "Firefly" commanded by Sergeant Gordon (gunner - Trooper Joe Ekins) from 3rd Platoon, "A" Squadron, 33rd Armored Brigade of 1st Northamptonshire Yeomanry. British Sherman VC "Firefly" armed with 17 pounder gun was capable of penetrating Tiger's armor at range of 800m. The force of explosion blew off the turret, which landed upside down away from the hull. Wittmann did not know that British had Fireflys in the area and felt confident in attacking their position with his Tigers, otherwise he would take different approach to the whole attack. After Wittmann failed to return from the battle, search for him by the members of the 12th SS Panzer Division "Hitlerjugend" and his battalion took place during the day and on the night of 8/9th.

Michael Wittmann and his crew were killed in action on August 8th of 1944, at Gaumesnil near Cintheaux and were buried in an unmarked grave. In March of 1983, the unmarked field grave of Tiger #007's crew was discovered during the construction of the road and was excavated. It was possible to identify the remains by Wittmann's dental records and Heinrich Reimers's (driver) identification tag. Wittmann and his crew was then officially buried in the German Military Cemetery of "De La Cambe" in Normandy, France. The cemetery is located on the National Road 13 (RN 13) between Isigny-sur-Mer and Bayeux. Michael Wittmann is buried in square 47, row 3, grave 120 of "De La Cambe". On August 8th of 1944, crew of Tiger #007 from 2nd Kompanie of schwere SS-Panzer Abteilungen 101 of LSSAH was as follows:

SS-Sturmmann Rudolf "Rudi" Hirschel (radioman) 24/1/3 - 44/8/8 (20 years old),
SS-Unterscharführer Henrich Reimers (driver) 24/5/11 - 44/8/8 (20 years old),
SS-Unterscharführer Karl Wagner (observer) 20/5/31 - 44/8/8 (24 years old),
SS-Sturmmann Günther Weber (loader) 24/12/21 - 44/8/8 (20 years old),
SS-Haupsturmfuhrer Michael Wittmann (commander) 14/4/22 - 44/8/8 (30 years old).

Here are some interesting links for you:

http://www.panzermuseum.com/records/rec_ss/documents/pers_wittmann_michael/ss_wittmann_michael.htm

http://www.militaryartgallery.com/HTML_2/wittmann's_Tiger_I_in_Villers-Bocage.htm

http://armored.panzermodeler.com/wittmann.htm

Wittmann's Tiger is on the right:
http://www.panzer.punkt.pl/artykuly/wittman/wittman9.htm

Thanks for the info Erock68
Will Fey's book quotes an French citizen's eyewitness report and post battle inspection of a Typhoon rocket entering the engine cover, ripping open the air intake grill. He claims no shell pentration in hull or turret. Of course time and emotion has a way of clouding memories.
What I found pretty interesting though is that 007 was Obersturmbannfuhrer V. Westerhagen's Tiger, the command panzer of the 101. Wittmann was filling in because Westerhagen was ill (a good day to call in sick).

Digger,

This gives me a chance to play with my new scanner I don't know if you need more pics but here ya' go....

Here are a couple pics of Wittmann's Tiger after the Villers-Bocage battle:

What book is that, Sir Eric??

Bill