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Friuli fears realized. Major problem results.

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Friuli fears realized. Major problem results.
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 8:35 AM
My Friuli panther treads curved quite a bit when I constructed them. I was not accustomed to this from Friuli, as my Tiger II treads had been problem-free. I posted about this here and on Missing Lynx (and to anyone who would listen Tongue [:P]) and was assured by numerous people that they would be fine when they went on the tank. So I spent a lot of time painting and weathering them.

I tried to put them on the tank last night, and they won't go. I mean, I get them around the wheels with a lot of tuging and scraping (which took paint off the tank and the treads), but they do the exact opposite of sagging, which is supposed to be the whole point of Friuli treads. They actually stand up over the road wheels, bellying up toward the sponsons rather than sagging down toward the wheels -- due to the contortion of the track lengths, and the bending they need to do in order to come together.

I was disappointed after having spent hours constructing them and then more hours painting and weathering them. I set the tank aside to see if gravity would eventually pull them down overnight. As of this morning, it had not.

This resulted in a huge waste of time and money for me. I wrote to Friuli when the curve first happened, and they ignored my e-mail.

Luckily I had ordered a set of the WWII Productions Panther treads for my Late G, but I may wind up using them for my group build Panther project instead, making it even more chronically late. I won't be using Friuli again.
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Kent, England
Posted by nmayhew on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 9:11 AM
Disapprove [V]Disapprove [V]Disapprove [V]
i feel really bad for you..i just posted in the panther GB that me and modelkasten ain't ever going to get acquainted...and now i guess another name's been added to the list!!
i'm sorry but i really don't buy into all this indie link stuff, because the manufacturers are laughing off their chairs every time one of us buys a set: wouldn't you be if you made money out of selling a product that:
1. usually has more flash than mr gordon himself
2. although detailed is basically mal-formed, unless you like drilling all those connector pin holes
3. has a significant chance they won't go together right even if you overcome the first 2 points
Angry [:(!]Angry [:(!]Angry [:(!]Angry [:(!]Angry [:(!]

i saw some resin links from australia somewhere getting rave reviews a few days back...now all they need to do is match the commercial acumen of MK and Fruil etc and get a web site (please somebody help them to help themselves here!!!)

as i also posted in the panther Gb i'll let you know about some resin links i'm getting from accurate armour; they can be no worse than MK, Fruil....

anyway, i'm off to set up "NMAYHEW RIP-OFF INDIE METAL LINKS Inc", so my next post will be from my own private island in the caribbean somewhere...

i'm with you Larry_Dunn!!

regards,
nick
Kind regards, Nicholas
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Southern Maine
Any suggestions for good digital cameras, under $300 for closeup photos?
Posted by spector822002 on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 9:23 AM
Larry: I feel ba for your results .... that is just plain ridicoulous for a set of $30plus set of tracks ......keep in mind however that there is 2 sets of panther tracks ( early and late ) and if you are building a tamiya early kit ( by early I mean the ancient tooling) they may not fit regardless , I have had great results with fruil tracks ( except for the early tamiya i built ) they do tend to curve when built ( mine always did!) try them on the opposite side of the tank ( do a switcheroo ) it may work ! Modelkasten track leave a lot to be desired , I agree! They will drive you nuts with the fragility of them .... they just plain break after painting ( the pins can't take the pressure of the bend after painting ) I would think a compromise between fruil and modelkasten would be the ticket ..... resin tracks , I think would be the way to go , resin is way tougher than styrene !
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 10:11 AM
Sorry to hear of your woes Larry, hang in there.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 10:19 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by spector822002
......keep in mind however that there is 2 sets of panther tracks ( early and late ) and if you are building a tamiya early kit ( by early I mean the ancient tooling) they may not fit


Well they say their tracks are for the D, and then for the A and G (and presumably for rebuilt D's as well). I have the Dragon Early A kit, and the sprockets are fine. This is not an issue with guide horns -- the horns fit around the wheels fine. It's the lengths themselves. The are curved.

QUOTE: try them on the opposite side of the tank ( do a switcheroo ) it may work !


A great idea! I will try it tonight. It will result in the treads being on the wrong side, but I don't want to give up on these tracks. They look great (he said modestly) and I want them on the bloomin' tank! Evil [}:)]
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 11:15 AM
Larry,
can you swap sides AND turn them around?
i should work if they are stil articulating at the pins.
then they would still go the right way.

my modeling buddy (who would not touch an armor kit w/ a 10 ft Exacto knife
made an interesting point to me:
if they can make cheap metal watchbands w/ a pin & link system,
someone should be able to make durable, flexible CHEAP indy tank links.

shouldn't they?
or is it a case of not enough sales to justify that type of tooling?
because they would sell by the boatload if the set was priced right and they WORKED!!

ed.
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Posted by wipw on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 11:48 AM
Oh my, how I feel all the pain! I'm right there with you guys, I assure you! Man, what a pain.

Larry, sorry to hear your Friul woes continue. That's a bummer, for sure. The only Friuls I've done are for my PzII (ween in my sig below). I didn't have that kind of trouble with them. I'm still not sure what you mean when you say they curve, though. Are you talking about along the length or "up and down" in relation to the track surface? Makes me very leary about getting a set for my DML's or my Tam. G, or even for my Tigers, as far as that goes. These WWII Productions sets really sound like the way to go. I need to look back through the threads and find out how they ordered them.

Good luck. I hope you can figure something out.
Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 11:55 AM
Hmmm...sorry to hear about the indy link woes, Larry.
I've never had any problems with the Friul sets I've used, so I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what went wrong with your set.
In my experience, if you clean 'em, drill 'em, and pin 'em properly, they move and sag like champs.
~Brian
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 11:58 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by wipw

I'm still not sure what you mean when you say they curve, though. Are you talking about along the length or "up and down" in relation to the track surface?


Bill, what I mean is, if you lay the length on a table, the tracks do not go in a straight line. They curve off the the side, gradually, like a curved portion of railroad track. It freaked me out when I was building them. I'm going to try specter's fix and pray that it works! If it does, I'll be sure to update you all.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 12:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk

Hmmm...sorry to hear about the indy link woes, Larry.
I've never had any problems with the Friul sets I've used, so I'm having a hard time understanding exactly what went wrong with your set.
In my experience, if you clean 'em, drill 'em, and pin 'em properly, they move and sag like champs.


Thing is, many people I wrote to told me that they had had the same curving going on when they did the Panther treads. Same apparently goes for the PzIII/IV. The treads went together fine, but they gradually curved as they did so.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Tochigi, Japan
Posted by J-Hulk on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 12:01 PM
Hmmm...I've never used those particular sets, but the M24, Matilda, Tiger II late version, T-55, T-72, and Crusader links all worked fine, with no curvature whatsoever.

Good luck, Larry!
~Brian
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Kent, England
Posted by nmayhew on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 1:06 PM
guys,
do you think that if enough of us wrote (emailed) WWII Productions they could get some 14year old kid to set up a website for them so that we can all order their stuff ONLINE??!!Smile [:)]
what do you think? gotta be worth a try...Wink [;)]
regards,
nick
Kind regards, Nicholas
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 1:36 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by J-Hulk

Hmmm...I've never used those particular sets, but the M24, Matilda, Tiger II late version, T-55, T-72, and Crusader links all worked fine, with no curvature whatsoever.


The Tiger II ones were fine for me as well. Strange.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 1:38 PM
Larry,

That sux bro... I don't understand what could have done that.... You must have gotten a really jacked up set or something... Wow...

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by mark956 on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 8:04 PM
Sorry to hear about your problem Larry. I hope you will finish them with no other hitches.
mark956
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:25 AM
Larry, go back to the DML Links. Just drill out the guide horns and they look great!!!!

Seriously, sorry to hear your probs. Like other things, Murphy's Law applies to indy tracks too.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 8:45 AM
Specter, I tried switching the sides and it actually looks a lot better on the "wrong" side of the tracks. Laugh [(-D] Unfortunately, they still don't hang the way you would want them to -- the torsion is keeping them taut. But it is a huge improvement. I will let the kit sit for a few days and see if they settle. Thanks again for the suggestion.
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:25 AM
Larry,
now that they are on the 'wrong' side,
did you put them on 'backward' or did you turn them so they go the right way?
ed.
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Southern Maine
Posted by spector822002 on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:18 PM
Hey Larry , check this out , I am building a set of modelkastens for this jagdtiger I am working on now , ... well went for the test fit this afternoon ,..... they suggested in the instructions to put 98 links per side , on the test fit it appears to be about 10 too many to me ( unless the tank has more sag than 2 russian units combined ) so its time to take 10 of them off ! Black Eye [B)] And this is after fixing break after break on these damn things! The only way to fix them is to glue them solid . there is no redrilling pin holes as they never seem to line up! Its stock for me from now on , or fruilmodel. Black Eye [B)]
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:43 PM
I've only tried aftermarket indie links ONCE, and never again. It took forever to assemble them, and they didn't go on right. Personally, I've avoided the whole fiasco ever since. If I get anything aftermarket, it's as simple as a PE set, and that's it.
Wildwilliam, I'm with your friend on that one "my modeling buddy (who would not touch an armor kit w/ a 10 ft Exacto knife
made an interesting point to me:
if they can make cheap metal watchbands w/ a pin & link system,
someone should be able to make durable, flexible CHEAP indy tank links."
The amount of materials and manufacturing costs are FAR below what they charge for the damn things.
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Utah - USA
Posted by wipw on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:23 PM
Spector:
QUOTE: The only way to fix them is to glue them solid . there is no redrilling pin holes as they never seem to line up!


I've actually been fairly successful in redrilling out the pin holes. some of the outer links have just about disintegrated, but if I was REAL careful, I could get it done. Then I put a brass rod in. (I started putting in some of the extra pins, but soon found that I wasn't making any progress as they could break as easily as the ones originally in there.) The problem is, it's impossible to cut the brass pins off flush enough with the links to make it look decent. Thank goodness I base coat my tracks with flat black. I think it will hide them, a bit. But it takes quite a bit of time. More than I'm willing to spend on it anymore. I'm going to try gluing the tracks together, letting them sit up for a while, then bending and proding them into shape around the wheels. One reason for my decision to do this is that I realized that even if I manage to get them on my model more or less as they are intended to be, they will in all probability just break apart there too. Then I'd have a real mess and the only way to fix them would be to glue them together anyway.
Bill ========================================================== DML M4A2 Red Army ========================================================== ========================================================== -- There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness". (Author unknown)
  • Member since
    December 2009
  • From: West Grove, PA
Posted by wildwilliam on Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:31 AM
All of this has made me glad that i used the Tamiya indy links on my Panther build.
just glue & go.
they may not look as good as the other types, but none of them came apart
even when i manhandled them into place and cinched them down w/ fishing line!

the WWII Production stuff looks beautiful & seems easy
(yeah, don't they always when someone else is assembling them!!)
but the price gives me pause.
and then to pop for shipping from the other side of the planet . . .

of course, i am working on my second kit w/ the rubberband tracks,
and i am not happy w/ either set of those!

if a person could make good cheap track links,
the world WOULD beat a path to his door!!

something to think abt.

ed.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:06 PM
Sorry to hear about that Larry. I'm not really an indy track fan and have never used AM links. I do like some, such as DML's Stalin series tracks and others that just seem to 'snap' together. I'm still not brave enough to try my late M4A3E8 DML tracks though!
I just finished painting my indy links for my DML Sherman and they didn't fit either, so I used Tamiya tracks on it. Oh well.

You're not alone in this and we're pullin' for you!

Ron
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