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I need help with my wash

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  • Member since
    November 2005
I need help with my wash
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 9, 2004 8:13 PM
Hi,

Right now I am working on a M1 Abrams from Tamiya. I painted the tank several weeks ago in NATO 3 -color camouflage with Tamiya acrylics. Then I did some touch ups last week that I let cure for another 48 hours. 3 days ago I sprayed 3 light coats of future about 3-5 minutes apart. Yesterday I put the decals on. Now today I applied some wash with Tamiya acrylics mixed with water at about 85%-90%. After about 30 minutes I started to dip the wash with cotton swabs and Isopropyl alcohol. Now comes my problem. I either get white spots or if I dip a little to hard the paint comes off, and if I try to be more careful I can't get the wash cleaned at all. What am I doing wrong. This was supposed to be my first kit I wanted to take to a contest in a couple weeks, but I guess I have to wait for my next kit to be finished. Please, any help and any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Joe
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:12 AM
I'm not sure grizzly, but I expect that the alchohol doesn't agree with the other products. Given the Iso alchol can be used to clean airbrushes that have passed future/acrylics I'd say that it is 'melting' your flat coat.
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: United Kingdom / Belgium
Posted by djmodels1999 on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:16 AM
Petbat might be right. I do not use acrylics for washes because they dry so fast, and mistakes are difficult to correct... I use artist's watercolours or artist's oils... I think the white haze would disappear if you had another coat of Klear on it... Might be worth trying on a little spot first to test.

The techniue I use is described in the techniques Forum. Good luck.

Domi

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:33 AM
I agree with the other two on this one! There is nothing that I have found so far that will clean a brush after using Tamiya acrylics faster than Isopropyl Alcohol!! Personally I would never mix Iso Alcohol and Tamiya acrylics unless you intend to remove the paint. And as far as the future… it sounds like the alcohol attacked the smooth surface of the wax and that is why the color went white on you. I would suggest touching up the parts where the paint has been removed, reapplying the future, and using a different wash method. I personally have had a lot of luck with artist’s oils and odorless paint thinner. The brand of thinner I use is Houston Art that I got at my local Michaels. Hope this helpsBig Smile [:D]

Good luck,
edog
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:25 AM
edog, Future is an acrylic not a wax, hence the reason the alcohol cleans it up so well and no doubt has caused some of the hazing. Probobly a simple oversight on your part but I thought that needed to be clarified.

grizzley, edog is right in that isopropyl alcohol will rip through tamiya acrylics. If you get a wiff of the Tamiya thinner you'll notice it smells alot like IA. I'm sure if you pulled the msds sheet on it you'd find it is mostly alcohol with some detergents in it.

Once you've made the repairs to the surface paint and future, try the oil washes as suggested. These can be cleaned up wth little effect on the future. After its done and you're ready to dull coat, you can use the Tamiya flat mixed with the future to get a semi gloss to flat finish on your tank. Once it's dried you can finish it out with pastels to really give it a nice weathering.

Good luck,

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Philippines
Posted by Dwight Ta-ala on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:34 AM
I agree with the guys Isoprophyl Alcohol can eat up Tamiya Acrylics. I use Isoprophyl Alcohol as thinner for Tamiya Acrylics. I also use Tamiya Acrylics for washes but I use water to thin them. That way the drying time is slowed.

Future as an acrylic is susceptible to being eaten by Isoprophyl Alcohol.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posted by zokissima on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:49 AM
Funny how you describe the very same problem I had. I figured it must have been the alcohol reacting with the future and stripping my paint. I've stayed away from it, and no more problems!
Also, as with Dwight, if I make washes with Tamiya acrylics, I"ll thin them out with water. If you like working with water based products, try artists watercolours. You can buy them in tubes that will last you a while, and create fairly nice finishes.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:02 AM
Oops, thought it was a wax. That explains why the Alcohol would attack it. Just goes to show you how much I know.Big Smile [:D] Well, I never use the stuff in any case. I usually use Polly’s gloss goat.
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Southern Maine
Posted by spector822002 on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 12:45 PM
The wash is reacting with the future , alchohol may strip this acrylic based product, I usually use the opposite of the coat underneath for washes etc, for example ,.... if I use acrylic paints or future ( which is also acrylic ) on the paint, I use oil based wash ( which will not react with the undercoats ) and vice versa . I hope you understand what I am trying to say here . Anyhow white spotting from future means it is being stripped , this may go away with drying , and it may not . Good luck !
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Sunny Florida
Posted by renarts on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 5:28 PM
A couple of drops of acrylic flow enhancer will slow down the drying of acrylics and you wont get as much of that "powdery" looking wash that you normally get with Tamiya acrylics.

Spector hit it on the nose.

Mike
Mike "Imagination is the dye that colors our lives" Marcus Aurellius A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Damn...that was fun!"
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Portugal
Posted by lito.sf on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:20 PM
I agree with the others, dont use alcohol. I make my washes of acrilic paint by mixing them with water and (very important) a couple of drops of dish washer. the dish washer alows you to clean the excess of the wash much easier! It can go over future.
  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Portugal
Posted by lito.sf on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 6:23 PM
I agree with the others, dont use alcohol. I make my washes of acrilic paint by mixing them with water and (very important) a couple of drops of dish washer. the dish washer alows you to clean the excess of the wash much easier! It can go over future.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 10, 2004 10:14 PM
Thanks everyone, I really learned my lesson. Your hints were very helpful. I retired my iso alcohol and I will use it just for cleaning my airbrush. I went to the hobby store today and got me some water solluble gouache. I think that will do the trick with my future. Now all thats left is to clean up my mess, touch up and get ready for the show. Again, thanks everyone from stopping me to buy a BB gun.

Joe
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:07 AM
i agree with the others i use iso alcohol to remove Tamiya Acrylics if i dont like the paint job
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