Oil Wash woes/suggestions

There are different colors of artist oil paint black that are very different from each other.  I have always used  Grumbacher "Ivory Black".  I think W&N also make this color. It is dead flat.  Raw umbers tend to have some gloss component.  Personally I would never wash over a gloss surface. I  always wash over MM flat laquer which is the final coat.

All good advice in here, thanks for you help everyone. 

allow me to clarify all of us have had issues that don't make sense to others but they are very real to us. many folks use dulcoat with no problem. i had a tamiya blue with gray and black splashes paint scheme on a BRDM. hit it with dulcoat and the blue bled like crazy. no one posting had this happen. with some thought and work i flipped it into a positive.

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I don't understand. I have never had a problem with AK or MIG washes over any acrylics, not ever without any barrier at all. AK and MIG washes are enamel and do not hurt my paint jobs which are acrylics.

ignorance is bliss for me i guess. i do oil washes over Vallejo, MMA, PolyS, Tamiya acrylics with no barrier and no problem. i squirt a little paint in cup on a cheap plastic pallet, add odorless thinner, stir it good and start. then i prime everythingg with ACEhardwatre NOW prior to painting.

i was in a watercolor demo at the library and he uses Dr Phil Martin's watercolors. they come in an eye dropper bottle and not a tube. work great. i am going to pick up a bottle and see how it does on a enamel primed figure and as a wash.

VTmodeldude28

1. Windsor and Newton Oil paints with Grumbacher odorless thinner. This seemed to be the way to go from what I've read, but I'm finding the thinner doesn't adequately break down the paint, that is, it leaves specks of pigment instead of a uniform line in cracks/details etc. It also doesn't seem to be mixing well.

The specks are common when thinning oil paints. The paint simply isn't meant to be thinned to that extent. I find that frequent stirring fixes the problem.

VTmodeldude28

2. Acrylic wash: obviously this was a bad choice. I purchased some Vallejo wash not realizing it was acrylic. I tried it anyway and as expected it broke down the underlying future and paint.

This is contrary to my experience. I have never had a water-based wash eat through acrylic paint. Look at videos of mini and figure painters. They apply the washes with impunity straight on top of acrylic paint and I've never seen one affect the base coat. The vallejo washes are water-based, so I would not expect them to be any different.

I would suggest you pick one of your options and stick with it. Except number 4, I mean that's just nuts. Options 1-3 will work. You just can't expect perfect results the first time you try it--that goes for any painting technique. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get the hang of it.

I totally get what you want to do. But why not just be consistent with an entire system. Vallejo, Mig acrylics work well together. Plenty of clear coats in either system to use between your primary coats and washes. I airbrush on a clear coat between most of my layers to help build depth, but I have used Vallejo wash over well dried main coats without any issues. Future is a great product for many things. But using it as a clear coat is not needed anymore. Acrylic washes do dry very quick, but that is manageable with a bit of planning, and completion of smaller areas as you work. The pigment density of modern acrylics is a blessing, not a hindrance. It just takes an adjustment of your methods to make the most of it. Cost may be slightly increased, but it is slight relative to issues that come from what you tried. Easy going = more consistently enjoyable modeling time. That's worth a couple dollars extra in your overall expenditure. Guess what I'm saying is, embrace the fact that we have been blessed with these great systems. I create probably 80% of my washes by using the Vallejo Glaze Medium, and what ever color acrylic Vallejo paint I wish, and a bit of AB thinner, a drop of retarder, and I have a wash that is based on what I need not what is available. It works as well as any system I have ever tried. And there is never a compatibility issue. To me the biggest advantages are obvious, no smell, controlled drying times- inhibitors work well :)- and consistent results....= one happy camper. I'm not looking to push acrylics either, the same can be said for oil based systems.

VTmodeldude28

Hello all,

Revisting AFV weathering after a bit of a hiatus and running into a few problems with finding a reliable washing technique with oils. I've read a few articles and tried a few different techniques but struggling to come up with a solution that works as well as it has in the past. I'm washing over Tamiya acrylics and Future. Here are the approaches I've tried so far:

1. Windsor and Newton Oil paints with Grumbacher odorless thinner. This seemed to be the way to go from what I've read, but I'm finding the thinner doesn't adequately break down the paint, that is, it leaves specks of pigment instead of a uniform line in cracks/details etc. It also doesn't seem to be mixing well.

I use Schminke-Mussini oils, myself, they're of similar quality, ie, very good.  I use plain ol' mineral spirits to thin them, with no issues.

VTmodeldude28

2. Acrylic wash: obviously this was a bad choice. I purchased some Vallejo wash not realizing it was acrylic. I tried it anyway and as expected it broke down the underlying future and paint.

Yes, if you want to lay an acrylic wash over acrylics, you'll want to seal the existing coats first, because the solvent used in the wash is likely to attack the underlying coat.  In this scenario, I use DullCote, if I have acrylics down and want to apply acrylic washes.  However, my acrylic washes are almost always craft store acrylics and plain ol' water, over Tamiya and Model Master acrylics.  The water isn't strong enough to attack the existing color, in my experience.

I also have learned when applying Tamiya acrylic paints, to use Tamiya's own proprietary thinner, to thin the paint for application, certainly for airbrushing, for which they are formulated, but also for hand-brushing.  I tried water and I tried isopropyl, and I got clumping.  But in any case, it's a good idea to seal the existing coat, if you want to protect it.

VTmodeldude28

3. MIG enamel wash: again a no no, but this was a test model so I tried it. Didn't seem to have the effect I wanted and I imagine it could create problems if used extensively (based on the laquer, enamel, acrylic, oil rule).

I have only a couple Mig and AK washes, mostly because I prefer to make my own, but I'd say yes, the solvents are probably aggressive enough to damage a naked acrylic layer.

VTmodeldude28

4. Windsor and Newton Oil paint with Windsor and Newton linseed oil. This seemed to work for me in the past but this stuff takes forever to dry and makes a mess. I figured since it was the carrier solvent in the paint it would thin it better. It does but doesn't seem like the best solution.

This is starting to get expensive but I would love to find a solution. Any suggestions? Should I invest in better paint? A different thinner? 

Thank you everyone for all your help!

Ah, yes!  Oil colors' slow drying time is an advantage to the painter, who wishes to blend and adjust colors, for shading purposes, but for scale modelers, it just slows you down as you build up momentum towards completion.

If you want to continue with an oil wash, you can shorten the drying time by using a lamp.  A 60w lamp is one option that we figure painters use, whether just to place the subject under a desk lamp, or to go so far as to build a drying box, with a threaded light socket base.  Some painters have also used small crock pots, like those potpourri pots that were popular a while back.  You want a gentle heat, a warmth, not overly hot to damage the piece.

If you haven't already checked, Winsor & Newton have this article at their website, discussing drying times:

http://www.winsornewton.com/na/discover/tips-and-techniques/oil-colour/understanding-the-drying-times-for-oil-colour-us

The article mentions at the end, using a drying medium to mix in the color and speed up the drying time as well.

I hope that helps!

Best regards,

Brad

Turpenoid is the way, as you've said.

I like W/N paints a lot for art, top of the line stuff. But I know that at least for watercolor paints, they can be really pigment heavy, which I think is why they are expensive.

I've had the best results with a $ 15.00 twelve tube beginner set of oils.

Hum....    I've used W/N oils for decades with ordinary "odorless" (who came up with this term?) mineral spirits without any problems. Sometimes I add just a drop or two of linseed oil to slow down the drying time. Straight linseed oil just makes a mess, as you know, so avoid that. Thorough mixing should help break up any blobs of paint. Make sure you properly thin the mix, roughly 10:1 thinner to paint. Washes also work better on dull surfaces with the texture helping the wash to cling to the surface. A slick, glossy coat of Future will cause most of the wash to flow right off.