Planned approach to future group builds?

Ok, Robert, that makes more sense. I can understand that.

BTW - I re-read my post, I didn't mean to come across so harsh. It was a long, awful night . . .

Good ideas there, petbat.
I like the Self propelled Artillery (maybe split into 2 builds -ww2 and other)
as I have a few kits that would fit into this category.
What about other, larger projects, like armour transporters, or the Trumpeter SAM transporter?

Gary - I really don't think it's a case of either of those. I was told it can be done, but would require some extra time that they weren't willing to commit to at this time.
This wouldn't just be for the Armour Forum, but for all of the main forums.

It wouldn't (or SHOULDn't) be very hard to add a Group Build forum, that is, if the software for this forum was written correctly (as a professional web-developer and senior year Computer Science major - I should know). The real reason must be the "powers that be" that Robert talked to either don't want to, or don't know how (i.e. they bought the software from a developer).

QUOTE: Originally posted by petbat dday, Sherm has looked into this, and short of rewriting the program that operates this site, a separate GB sub-forum is unfortunately not feasible. Thanks for the simple yes/no answer Derek.

Oh, darn

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kumakichi Whitewolf and me have been participating in the 1/16 Tiger group as well but we weren't originally members of it. We just sort of straggled in and I believe a couple others are participating on an infrequent basis. So far I've enjoyed being in it immensely. But I could understand how people are getting tired of seeing the same bunch of build groups hogging up the top of the forums. If it gets "unstickied" I'd still try to post there until it became too much of a bother to find in the forums. But I'd miss it.

couldnt you add it to you favorites? then you could find it no problem
and i thing there still listed on the group build thread in the generel modeling thread

Hmm, no more takers....okay we'll let this issue rest then.

dday, Sherm has looked into this, and short of rewriting the program that operates this site, a separate GB sub-forum is unfortunately not feasible.

Thanks for the simple yes/no answer Derek.

QUOTE: End result is, do we want to have a loose GB agenda posted for all to view or not?

One word answer: yes.

QUOTE: I mentioned this in the AFV build but how bout this: an Armor GB sub-forum, for example ARMOR /.............\ GB.........Topics

I would prefer a GB forum in the "modeling subjects" section. I think it should be easily accessible to all, not just us tread heads.

I mentioned this in the AFV build but how bout this: an Armor GB sub-forum, for example
ARMOR
/.............\
GB.........Topics

QUOTE: We should have reasonable finish dates on ALL group builds and then cut them loose after that date with a small grace period. After that, if they are still active they'll float on their own.

I think the rest should pretty unrestricted.

Sorry to open such a big can of worms! My intention wasn't to continue the sticky discussion, etc. Nor was I looking for a dictatorial approach to a faction dominating the subjects, or to stop anybody from suggesting any other group builds. I simply wanted to help out guys that want to join in a group build experience but do not have ready access to AM parts or a LHS. By having some idea of what they could join in in the future builders like Nick and the others outside the US and Canada would have some time to obtain things in preparation for a particular group build project.

Those who have participated in the recent builds have all declared they gained from the group build experience. We have all learned things from the builds (special note of thanks to Robert for sharing his knowledge of the Sherman with so many of us asking his advice), and the benefits to younger modellers are obvious.

Maybe if we had a loose agenda of say 3 planned consecutive GB's (of 2 months duration maximum each) this would suffice. Anyone not interested in a particular build could suggest another spontanious build, as has been the case to date. A new loose agenda could then be agreed upon at say the time the last planned build is due to start.

Those that don't want to participate do not have to, and viewing the thread is optional. I did not participate in the Tiger builds, but still enjoyed the opportunity to learn from and view pics from the participants.

I agree that the Sticky issue could be a problem, but in reality does a group build need to be a sticky at all? With the many contributions each day, group builds would feature in the first 1 or 2 pages, and after the 2 week grace period after completion date falls due, the thread could be locked so as to allow it to go to the archives in peace.

End result is, do we want to vote to have a loose GB agenda posted for all to view, or not?

I like the idea of specific kit GB's. that would be perfect for someone who is interested in modeling a new subject, but doesnt know much about it (that would be me). It would be a great way to get help when having problems or needing suggestions.

casey

Whitewolf and me have been participating in the 1/16 Tiger group as well but we weren't originally members of it. We just sort of straggled in and I believe a couple others are participating on an infrequent basis. So far I've enjoyed being in it immensely. But I could understand how people are getting tired of seeing the same bunch of build groups hogging up the top of the forums. If it gets "unstickied" I'd still try to post there until it became too much of a bother to find in the forums. But I'd miss it.

I think a separate forum for build groups is a grand idea.

And I think a combination of spontaneously selected build groups as well as a planned out build group itinary (spelling?) would be great. I'm not real crazy about a completely planned out schedule but a mix of the 2 I think would work out just right..... but I think for something like that it would really need a dedicated group build forum..... just my 2 cents.

p.s. just a thought.... if its too much of a hassle for FSM (they might not be willing to or have the resources to devote the time it would take to add one) to put one up would it be in bad taste if someone donated a forum for group builds? One topic stickied on the FSM armor forums taking you to the group builds. I don't know how FSM would feel about it and I'm sure its a touchy issue.... just throwing it out there as a suggestion for what its worth.

Beav - I don't think deleting any thread is beneficial, they should just be cut loose to become part of the archives.

Dan - what I inquired about was getting a sub directory placed inside the armour forum for group builds. That would take a major overhaul of the site so things have to remain the same in that respect.

The consensus seems to be that they are a good thing ... some like the spontaneous nature and other like the planeed in advance version. But the biggest bone of conntention is that they are lingering on in the forums. We should have reasonable finish dates on ALL group builds and then cut them loose after that date with a small grace period. After that, if they are still active they'll float on their own.

Now that can be arranged quite easily with the moderators ...... simple and yet should be effective.

If the majority agrees, I'll contact them on Monday and get some stickies removed.

I think all sticky group builds should end one month after the so-called completion date.

wait, hey, can't the creator of the thread delete the thread, even if it is sticky? just a thought-since you can do it with non-stickys

Alot of good ideas presented here. Unfortunately, we seem to go through the motions every so often with a new posting and good ideas, but the end result is that the Group Builds aren't changed. Didn't Robert try changing things and contact the management only to be told that things would stay as they are, or get rid of them altogether? I do agree with Robert that there should be a time limit on the start and end of a build. And having a two week grace period after the end date sounds good too. But those are ideas that all of us would have to abide by....is it possible?

We are now a forum of over 30,000 members and I am sure there will be posts and builds on here that some or most of us aren't interested in, at one time or another. But for those two, or twenty....etc, that are in that build, it is worthwhile. But if we could set time limits on all builds maybe then we could keep our forums tidy.

Regards, Dan

All these (Group build) ideas sound great.

I do agree we need some "Spring Cleaning" in the Armor forum, as far as the stickies go!

I think that the Small AFV build, should be the last of the era, as times are changing(how political this is!) anyways, I would like to do a kit specific one, as I to, don't have a liscence, and I live in the middle of nowhere. anyways...lets get David to clean out the old, and in with a new forum!

i am kind of the same boat as nmayhew in that i have to order parts over the internet to build the subjects i mainly want to build (being australian stuff ) I like to plan models, but also like to make "on the spot descions" (can't spell) perhaps a mix would be good ...

... as far as subjects for the next group build, i'd be keen to build a light armoured vehicle, like the LAV, M113, or armoured car, but i have to agree that the next group build should be put off until most of the ones running now are over

hi guys
here's my ...
regarding "dead" builds like the tiger 1/35, they just clutter the armour page and basically look bad...
if we were to have a group build forum itself, then fine....
i also believe that once a group build reaches a certain critical mass, it doesn't need sticky status anyway...
finally regarding spontaneity of subject, personally i'd like a bit of notice. i don't have physical access to giant hobby shops like most of you guys in the US do, so things have to come from on-line ordering, and thus require a little more time and planning. in addition, personally when i do GB i try to make it "extra good" and thus will be more likely to order aftermarket items etc etc, so again a little bit more time is needed.
finally, and this obviously reflects my nationality and location, but as regards future GB subjects i'd like stuff like WWII desert themed builds, just so i can build something british!!!
regards,
nick

QUOTE: Originally posted by caseyn5 Just my two cents that dont mean much since im a beginner and havent participated in any broup builds.

Your opinion counts, you are a member just like me.

A couple thoughts:
1. Sticky status: I like Robert's idea of unstickying two weeks after the set completion date.
2. Subjects/complexity: Most of the recent builds have for a general type or family (the Panther build included ALL variants of the Panther chassis), We should do some that are kit specific with nothing more that whats in the box. I believe this would be a huge benefit to those new to the hobby or that want to try out new techniques.
3. Spontanious/planned: Planned builds are great because it gives opportunity to get kits, supplies and AM parts for the build.Spontanious builds are nice because we can finally build that kit that has been on the shelf for 6 months (or years) and we can revisit some basic skills.

I, also, would like to see a GB forum. If we do (for instance) a Pacific theater build why limit it to armor? There were wingy thingys and floaty thingys there too! I f the GBs were in one forum the whole community would see, and be able to join, the next build. This would be an awsome opportunity to get recruits for the dark side!

QUOTE: Originally posted by shermanfreak [Of the original 4 members in the 1/16 Tiger build, there is only one left, should it remian sticky forever ????

By all means, don't keep it a sticky on my account! Who knows when I'll ever get to work on that big kitty...
Wait a second, there are TWO of us left in the Tiger I group build! Erush is still busy folding (magnificently, I might add) the crazy-go-nuts Aber PE parts.

...or perhaps you were thinking about Erush and forgot about li'l ol' J-Hulk?

Anyway, a lot of good points being put forth here.

I am yet to actually participate in a group build, but have put myself down for three, and am really looking forward to it. Because of this, I am not really sure how they work or what is best, so I won't put my two cents in, but the points you have all raised are very interesting, and I hope a more workable and user friendly (builder friendly?) solution comes out of it.

Matt

I'm not too keen on having such a schedule, imposed or not by FSM. I think a bit of 'spontaneity' is good for the Forum and it also allows for newer member to make a proposal that will be as valued as one from an old dog like me. I'm definitely going along with Robert in the fact that some GB should be de-stickied (like the one in the ship forum, which has been dead for ages).

I'd like to see GB in other 'categories' too (in effect the Natural metal' one could/should be in the techniques forum): dioramas, dealing with a particular aspect or techniques applied to dioramas (water, mud, ruins, blown-up, action,..)... to painting (alclad, SNJ, inks, oils,..).

Another thing that would interest me a lot would be a GB on a very particular subject that several members would tackle and see 'come together' during the BIG MEET (if it ever happens!) - things like a 1/72 8th Air Force, 1/32 MiG story, 1/35 Anzio landing, 1/72 Barbarossa, 1/48 Century series, 1/700 Kriegsmarine,...

I can see the point of planning out the builds ahead of time. It's not always possible for me to get out the hills right away to find a particular kit and accesories. I enjoyed the Panther build and learned alot of new stuff from it and would kie to participate in another but I usually buy my kits in bunches when they are on sale and such so a heads up in advance would get me looking for a particular kit. A seperate forum for the builds would be nice to, keep them all together and in the future would be easy for someone to find if they were going to be building a similar subject. Ok, I think I have spent my 2 cents worth.

I was thinking that before anymore group builds start, the rest or a portion of them should finish first. There are so many going on, if someone does come up with an idea for a group build most people are already involved in a number of projects, and thus not many people will want to add more to the "to do list". Just my two cents that dont mean much since im a beginner and havent participated in any broup builds.

I understand where you are going with this, and it sounds reasonable, but how about the FSM boys keep a Group Build Schedule. They can pick a new build/genre every 3 months, and have an extremely large group of modelers modeling a lot of different genres that perhaps many wouldn't otherwise do. Heck, maybe they can put the results in the mag...there are endless possabilities!!! I would totally be game for something like that!!!