Afrika Mustard on panther?

Honestly I would say that the color is up to you. From what I understand colors changed fast in the field, not to mention that you’ll probably put washes, and dry brushing on top of that yellow paint. From reading other forums I gather that there is no real definitive example for what the Germans used for dark yellow in WWII. This is because color photos can not be trusted for reference and all vehicles with original paint have been subject to deterioration (fading, weathering, ect…). Having said this, I have heard that Tamiya makes the most accurately represented dark yellow for German WWII armor. I do believe that they have that color in a spray can too. If your going with a color that you have already, well then I guess that’s your call.

And just a quick note on the brown, and green: These colors were issued to Germans in a paste form and thinned in the field with anything that was handy. Everything from water to gasoline was used in varying amounts to thin this paste. Gasoline would allow the colors to adhere much better than water, therefore colors thinned with water would wash off or fade rather quickly. There is a LOT of freedom here when choosing your colors for the green, and brown camo patterns and colors.

hope this helps

erick

I would have to agree with edog, if your going to use the afrika mustard as a base coat and then add camouflage colors to that, then it would be alright to use it. Again, your going to weather it using the dry brush technique and washes. I also fade the paints using pastels. Until I bought my airbrush, I used the afrika mustard numerous times for kits that I was working on at the time. And they turned out beautiful. You go ahead and use that. Good luck with it and enjoy. Keep the models coming. Chris.

I have to disagree with edog about his assessment about the variability of German dunkelgelb. Although he's correct that there is much controversy and that b/w photos can't accurately be reproduced, there are several reputable authors/researchers/historians who have delved into this question. Actual, factory applied German tan, or dunkelgelb showed almost NO variation throughout the war -- this is the opinion of Thomas Jentz, the noted German WW2 author. He bases his findings on actual preserved relics (preserved in darkness and without handling: light and skin oils will affect the color). In a seminar I attended he spoke several items: 1) a never-issued Notek lamp, still in the box, 2) the inside lid of a scissors periscope storage case and a few other pieces he's been able to personally investigate. Over at the Finnish IPMS site, two of its members were able to unearth some wartime materiel shipped from Germany to Finland. These items were never issued and stored in a dry cool environment. The conclusion was that all of these pristine relics were almost identical in color.

Now what are we as 1/35 scale modellers to do with that? Well, given fading, dust & dirt and scale effects of lighting, we do have much latitude. I use Tamiya Dark Yellow and lighten and darken as suits my taste. Jentz' perception of the actual color was more tan than greenish.

Also, I've heard that "gasoline and water" line tons of times. I totally believe that it's an urban legend. Can I believe that fading, camo spraying ability and other factors come into play? Sure but I don't think any crew spending a few hours is going to dump their "paint paste" into a bucket of water. Besides the fact that many were factory applied...

My two cents. Take care.

ericadeane, perhaps you misunderstood, or I did not correctly convey what I intended to say about the color of dunkelgelb. I agree that the color was probably constant from its first use till the end of the war. I was merely trying to state that in the field colors would change fast based on exposure to the local environment (dust, fading, basic wear, ect…).

Secondly, while examples of dunkelgelb paint that have not been exposed to wear, or fading may exist, there is no evidence to suggest that the color has not distorted due to changes in molecular structure over a long period of time caused by moisture, or acidity. I was merely trying to state that yes, there is very good evidence for the shade of dunkelgelb, but it still remains an educated guess.

Next, I must state that the “urban legend” of gasoline and water is not a legend, but rather another “educated guess”. While dunkelgelb may have been applied at the assembly line, a great deal of German armor (if not all) had the camo patterns applied while in transit to or at the front and NOT at the factory. Furthermore, I have seen many photos of tanks in which it does not appear that crew spent hours applying paint at all, but rather minutes during a lull in the fighting. This especially seems to be the case on the eastern front. And I would at least consider that water would have been used as a substitute for the ever dwindling supply of gasoline.

I just want to add that there was a great discussion of the color of dunkelgelb on another forum and I will provide a link here:

http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=47207&messageid=1046886801

If this is inappropriate, I apologize, but thought it might help anyone who wanted to know more about the subject.

Finally, I want to state that without photographic evidence of a specific vehicle, I feel that German WWII armor is so fun to model because aside from a purple painted Tiger in Katmandu, anyone would have a tough time disproving your model did not actually exist. (although, I did hear a rumor of a pink Panther in Vietnam)

ericadeane, I am by no means an expert (not yet anyway), and I’m quite sure that I am not as well educated as you in German armor. My sources include the often criticized Panzer Colors books, and several forums that I monitor. I would welcome any criticism, or input on my views.

Just 2 more cents

Hey Edog:
Sorry if I came off sounding sactimonious as well. Your points are well taken. Sometimes I get too caught up in the research side --- now where is that airbrush? I got tons of work waiting for me on the workbench...

Hey, no problem here. I always value criticism more than praise. We wouldn’t learn much if we all agreed with each other all the time. And besides, what a boring forum that would make for.

I see no reason why you should not go with Afrika Mustard.
After all you are going to over coat it with the other camo colours.
As long as it looks good to you, that is the most important thing.
While I do research on a subject, I tend to do only minor corrections.
In the end all that matters is that it looks ok to you.

there was a pink panther in vietnam but only a portion was pink

I agree with Egod. Afrika Mustard would make a nice base. Sine the Panthers were coming on line in April '43, and the Afrika Corp surrendered in May '43, useing Mustard would be logical, since the Germans probably had lots of it on hand.

Hey, junior, how did you find out about the panther in Vietnam??? I had heard the rumor, but have not seen any actual evidence for its existence. Any idea where I can find out more about it???

crap, i already ordered tamiya dark yellow to paint by hand. oh well, as long as its realistic

Edog, I've also heard about that pink panther. A friend of mine who flew in vietnam told me he saw it once somewhere near the cambodian border. He also told me it was left there by the French military. I guess they took alot of the left overs after WW2. I also understand they used alot of JU52's in their airforce over there too. Just what I've heard, haven't seen any pictures of it. Chris.