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Mangled Metal over the Somme - Done Sir!

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  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Mangled Metal over the Somme - Done Sir!
Posted by ridleusmc on Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:05 AM

Hello All, 

My current project is going to require some skills and techniques that I've never attempted before.  

C5 - HMLS Creme de Menthe was hit by German artillery at about 4:00 on the morning of September 15, 1916.  This was while her unit was assembling for an assault on enemy emplacements near the Courcelette sugar refinery.  The right side of the tank's steering tail was shattered by the shell.  After sustaining the damage, C5 went on to have a very successful day.  She overran the German defenses while supporting Canadian infantry in capturing Courcelette.

You can see from the pictures that the right side of the steering tail was reduced to ribbons of mangled steel.  The remains of the damaged area seem to drag along the dirt and mud of No Man's Land.  

I was thinking about how to model this.  Lead foil is available, which could be cut into jagged ribbons.  The big challenge would be to join the foil to the plastic pieces with somewhat of a natural transition.  How does one transition from undamaged plastic to twisted and knarled metal ribbons?   This is what I'm working with.

The transition between damaged and undamaged is marked here in black marker.

I wish I had pictures of the right side of the tank, but I can't find any.  It's likely that such pictures do not exist.  The camera guy probably stayed on the left side of the tank for a very German reason.

Here's the tank.

Does anybody have any thoughts on how to replicate the steering tail damage?

Thank you,

-Chris    

MrT
  • Member since
    December 2010
Posted by MrT on Wednesday, December 7, 2016 9:49 AM

This looks to be a cool project!  What kit?

I will be watching this for sure.

Terry

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, December 7, 2016 10:45 AM

It sounds like it will be a nice project.  Your idea of using lead foil is a good one.  Thin sheet styrene will also work.  Either way, the key to making it look realistic is to be sure the point where the kit parts and the added damaged part meet is seamless.  Blending, filling, sanding, etc. will be in order.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

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  • Member since
    November 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Wednesday, December 7, 2016 12:55 PM

In the bottom photo, it looks as if the wheel rim is laying to the right of the tank. Some of the tangle may be the control cables as well, which would be interesting to model. I agree with making it seamless, that's a major goal. There would also most likely be some shrapnel damage to the right side of the trail. Maybe some work with a hobby knife, or Dremel bit, denting and tearing the plastic would be good. I would also guess that if the wheel was torn off, the steering link would also be bent up and maybe even the brace plates (perforated plates top and bottom)?

Looks like  fun project!   Too bad they detailed the insides of the sponsons, but not the rest of the tank interior. 

 

Ron

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Wednesday, December 7, 2016 4:13 PM

MrT

This looks to be a cool project!  What kit?

I will be watching this for sure.

Terry

 

This is the Takom Mk I Male in 1/35, #2031.

I used a cab correction resin piece and metal gun barrels from MR Modellbau from Germany.  (MR-35517 & MR-35516).  

I have some decals from New Penguin Decals in Russia, but they'll have to be modified for Creme de Menthe.  

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Wednesday, December 7, 2016 4:20 PM

HeavyArty

It sounds like it will be a nice project.  Your idea of using lead foil is a good one.  Thin sheet styrene will also work.  Either way, the key to making it look realistic is to be sure the point where the kit parts and the added damaged part meet is seamless.  Blending, filling, sanding, etc. will be in order.

 

I'm sure you're right, there will be much blending and filling and filing and sanding.  As a strategy, should I build up some damaged pieces first, and then attack the kit parts?  Maybe that should be my route.  I have some thin styrene, so I can experiment with that a bit.  

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Wednesday, December 7, 2016 4:30 PM

Poniatowski

In the bottom photo, it looks as if the wheel rim is laying to the right of the tank. Some of the tangle may be the control cables as well, which would be interesting to model. I agree with making it seamless, that's a major goal. There would also most likely be some shrapnel damage to the right side of the trail. Maybe some work with a hobby knife, or Dremel bit, denting and tearing the plastic would be good. I would also guess that if the wheel was torn off, the steering link would also be bent up and maybe even the brace plates (perforated plates top and bottom)?

Looks like  fun project!   Too bad they detailed the insides of the sponsons, but not the rest of the tank interior. 

 

Ron

 

Yes, I think you're right about the control linkage and brace plates.  It looks like those stringy ribbons are about the same width and length as the wheel spokes.  However, I don't see anything that resembles a wheel hub or the outer rim.  I wonder if the wheel hub is still there, but the rest of the wheel are the ribbons.  

I understand that Meng's Mk V has a nice interior.  Driver training and transport was often accomplished with the sponsons off.  That would be a good way to show off an interior.  On this model, I left some of the guns' interior details off.  They were installed, but then knocked off.  I had some challenges.  I decided they weren't worth fighting and left them off.  

  • Member since
    November 2016
Posted by usmc93 on Thursday, December 8, 2016 7:07 PM

This is a very cool project, looking forward to following this one!

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Friday, December 9, 2016 12:24 AM

Thank you sir, 

The recent FSM special feature, "100 Years of Tanks," sparked my interest in this subject.  The Solomon camoflauge of the Mk. I tanks really peaked my interest.  I was originally going to model a vehicle called D20 HMLS Daphne.   There are some pictures and video available from it.  The vehicle even had a crew member which was feline.  However, I started reading about Creme de Menthe.  It had an increadible first day.  

It's hard to tell from the picture.  I'm beginning to wonder if the body of the tail assembly was heavily damaged or just the wheel.

-Chris 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Monday, December 19, 2016 9:55 PM

There has been work on the Mk I, but things have been slow.  I guess it's fitting.  These things had a max speed of about 4 mph.  I decided to use some "artistic license."  I'm not claiming to be an artist, but I need an excuse.  I centered the damage around a destroyed wheel.  The rim and spokes of the wheel were considered as the origins of the mangled strips of metal to drag along the fields of the Somme.  Lead foil was cut to strips at about the length and width of the wheel spokes.  I also fashioned some lead foil into an arc of about a third of a rim.  The kit wheel was used as a model.  Hydraulic piping is solder wire, and a couple of references were found on landships.info.  The horse-shoe fits a reference pic and I found the PE pieces on ebay.  They look good, and they are from Hauler out of the Czech Republic.  The chain is from the kit for Gaza strip versions.  Here's how she's looking.

      

Thank you for looking,

Chris

  • Member since
    November 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Tuesday, December 20, 2016 9:47 AM

ridleusmc

 

 
Poniatowski

In the bottom photo, it looks as if the wheel rim is laying to the right of the tank. Some of the tangle may be the control cables as well, which would be interesting to model. I agree with making it seamless, that's a major goal. There would also most likely be some shrapnel damage to the right side of the trail. Maybe some work with a hobby knife, or Dremel bit, denting and tearing the plastic would be good. I would also guess that if the wheel was torn off, the steering link would also be bent up and maybe even the brace plates (perforated plates top and bottom)?

Looks like  fun project!   Too bad they detailed the insides of the sponsons, but not the rest of the tank interior. 

 

Ron

 

 

 

Yes, I think you're right about the control linkage and brace plates.  It looks like those stringy ribbons are about the same width and length as the wheel spokes.  However, I don't see anything that resembles a wheel hub or the outer rim.  I wonder if the wheel hub is still there, but the rest of the wheel are the ribbons.  

I understand that Meng's Mk V has a nice interior.  Driver training and transport was often accomplished with the sponsons off.  That would be a good way to show off an interior.  On this model, I left some of the guns' interior details off.  They were installed, but then knocked off.  I had some challenges.  I decided they weren't worth fighting and left them off.  

 

I was seeing something that looked like the rim, rather than a hub, but looking at it again, I'm not so sure. Looks like you're making some great progress. 

Cheers,

Ron

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Wednesday, December 21, 2016 8:49 PM

Thank you,

I decided to show a broken wheel with the rim holding the damaged metal together.  It gives me a place to start, and it simplifies the construction.  I have yet to find a picture of the right side of the vehicle from that day, so I have a bit of license.  It's hard to find 100 year old reference pictures.  Oh well, I'm glad you like it.  So far, I'm pleased with how things are turning out.  

I have some time off from work, so I've been busy.  Right now, I'm waiting for primer to dry on the tank, and glue to dry on the "No-man's-land" base.  The black Vallejo Surface primer tends to clog my airbrush.  It says airbrush ready, but can it be thinned?  

This is how the display mocks up.  

Thank you for looking,

Chris

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Thursday, December 22, 2016 9:44 PM

I'm still having a ball with this project and my time off.  My vacation days expire with the new year.  Use them, or lose them.  

I started painting.  I like Vallejo primer, but it clogs my airbrush.  It applies great, but I have to keep clearing the tip of my airbrush.  I like Ammo by Mig Jimenez acrylic colors, but it clogs my airbrush.  It applies great, but I have to keep clearing the tip of my airbrush.  

Goodnight all, and thank you for looking.

-Chris

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Friday, December 23, 2016 4:48 PM

Yea, I gotta keep in touch with this, really good start on the damaged wheel.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Saturday, December 24, 2016 7:59 PM

Thank you Templar, 

I did some painting last night.  It was hard for me to determine colors from the reference pictures.  The pics are 100 years old and all black and white.  I can't tell what's grey, tan, brown, green or mud.  I based my paint scheme from the kit instructions with adjustments.  I'll be hand painting black borders soon.  I used sticky-tack masking, and some parts came off with the sticky-tack.  None of the damage was serious, and most of the parts are accounted for.  The one part that is missing has a replacement left in the kit box.  All is good.  This is how she's looking.  I'm happy so far.

-Thank you for looking,

Chris

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by TheMongoose on Saturday, December 24, 2016 8:32 PM

Try either the vallejo flow improver or CreateX. I am using the CreateX which i got at Pat Catans. Really helps eliminate the issues  with clogged tip.

In the pattern: Scale Shipyard's 1/48 Balao Class Sub! leaning out the list...NOT! Ha, added to it again - Viper MkVii, 1/32 THUD & F-15J plus a weekend madness build!

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Sunday, December 25, 2016 12:26 AM

Maybe I can get CreateX from Michaels, on Monday.  

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays to all. 

-Chris

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Streetsboro, Ohio
Posted by Toshi on Monday, December 26, 2016 10:58 AM

This looks fantastic!  I can't wait till you finish this one!

Toshi

On The Bench: Revell 1/48 B-25 Mitchell

 

Married to the most caring, loving, understanding, and beautiful wife in the world.  Mrs. Toshi

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:26 PM

Thank you Toshi,

Progress is slow, but I'm having fun.  The camo has been touched up, and the black borders have been applied.  I'm going to paint a few details, then I'll get to weathering.  Here's how she's looking now.  

Thank you for looking,

Chris

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, December 30, 2016 7:42 AM

Oh wow, love how the camo is coming Chris!Yes

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    October 2010
  • From: Rockford, IL
Posted by AlanF on Friday, December 30, 2016 12:06 PM

I'm loving how this is coming out. Maybe a WWI tank is going to make it into my stash.

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Monday, January 2, 2017 6:07 PM

Thanks Gamera, Thanks Alan,

She's getting there.  I'm waiting for a little Celluclay to dry on my base, and I'm waiting for some Vallejo Mud Effects to come in the mail.  I plan on applying a little light mud on and around the tracks.  My references show some mud on the vehicle, but it's not covered.  

I'm happy with my weathering so far.  I gave it a wash with Vallejo Oiled Earth Acrylic Wash, then I cleaned up the wash with a little ammonia glass cleaner and cotton swabs.  I put some Vallejo black wash around the exhausts.  I airbrushed some Tamiya X-19 Smoke at the business ends of the 6-pounds guns, around the exhausts, and around the damaged wheel hub.  Testors Dullcoat Lacquer is my old standby for the final dull.       

Thank you for looking,

Chris

 

  • Member since
    February 2006
  • From: Boston
Posted by Wilbur Wright on Sunday, January 8, 2017 8:31 PM

It looks great. Nice paint work. Very interesting these WWI tanks.  For years there was nothing available in this area and now several nice kits are out.

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, January 9, 2017 12:03 PM

The camo looks even better with the weathering. Yes

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Friday, January 20, 2017 2:38 AM

Thank you Wilbur, thank you Gamera, 

This was a fun project, and I'm happy with the way it turned out.  Originally, it was just going to be mounted to a simple base, but I wanted to mimic one of my reference pictures.  The base turned out well, but I decided that there was too much open area.  I went ahead and got some Tamiya Infantry to accompany the Mark I.  C5 - Creme de Menthe attacked Courcellette while supporting Canadian infantry.  (21st Battalion - 2nd Canadian Division.)  References indicated that Canadian troops used British uniforms and equipment, so I used British Infantry figures.  Here's how she looks.  Constructive critism is always appreciated, it helps me get better.  

Thanks for looking,

Chris

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, January 20, 2017 7:57 AM

Now that's some nice work! Yes

I love seeing something displayed in it's natural environment as it were, can't do much better than muddy 'no man's land'. And love figures added, they provide a great sense of scale as to how big these monsters were. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, January 20, 2017 8:27 AM

Now that is really nice. The camo is very well done as is the weathering. And the whole scene is just spot on. I dolike the ground work and the two figs are just enough.

Brilliant.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: From the Mit, but live in Mason, O high ho
Posted by hogfanfs on Friday, January 20, 2017 10:29 AM

Chris,

Wow! The entire dio looks spectacular! The infantrymen are a great touch! Very nicely done!

 Bruce

 

 On the bench:  1/48 Eduard MiG-21MF

                        1/35 Takom Merkava Mk.I

 

  • Member since
    December 2015
  • From: providence ,r.i.
Posted by templar1099 on Friday, January 20, 2017 10:43 AM

You've outdone yourself with this one. A-1 work.

"le plaisir delicieux et toujours nouveau d'une occupation inutile"

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posted by ridleusmc on Friday, January 20, 2017 9:39 PM

Thank you all very much,

It was a fun project.  

The kit did have some issues, but it is generally a very nice kit.  It went together well.  The cab is undersized.  It's appropriate to a Mk IV.  MRModellbau in Germany makes a nice resin correction.  Other than that, accuracy is good.  It seems to match my two reference books.  

It was fun to paint and weather, which was what originally drew me to the subject.  I started thinking about this project after reading "First in the Field, British Mark I"  in the September 2016 issue of FSM.  However, my approach was slightly different.  

The base was fun.  I've never built a base like that before.  It's shaped styrofoam with Vallejo Earth Texture and Brown Thick Mud.  It was fun heat cutting and shaping the foam, and it was fun building the textures with the Vallejo products.  

The figures are Tamiya, and they were great.  I liked the poses, so I didn't change those.  The figures were very nicely engineered.  They went together very quickly with no doubt how arms or legs should be positioned.  I changed the location of the gas-mask-bags to match reference pictures, but they are their own part.  It was simply locating a part contrary to the directions.  

Yes, this was a fun project.  Next project is a B-24D Liberator.  I think I'll enjoy that too.  

Thank you for looking,

Chris

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