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M109 155mm Self-Propelled Howitzer - Vietnam War

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  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, December 30, 2018 1:23 PM

Armor_Aficionado
Hey Sarge, I recently completed a build of Italeri's M-109 kit, was pretty pleased with how it turned out (only a couple of minor fit issues with the running gear/tracks, otherwise an easy build). I know the kit allows it to be built as at least an A1 or A2, it might be able to be built as an A-nothing as well, as there are a bunch of extra parts on the sprues that are not called out in the instructions. You can check out my build over on the Modern Armor Group Build thread.
 

Armor_Aficionado, do you have a link or picture of your finished M109? What I saw on the Group Build thread was work-in-progress.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, December 28, 2018 10:09 AM

Armor_Aficionado
Hey Sarge, I recently completed a build of Italeri's M-109 kit, was pretty pleased with how it turned out (only a couple of minor fit issues with the running gear/tracks, otherwise an easy build). I know the kit allows it to be built as at least an A1 or A2, it might be able to be built as an A-nothing as well, as there are a bunch of extra parts on the sprues that are not called out in the instructions. You can check out my build over on the Modern Armor Group Build thread.
 

Italeri makes a basic short barrel M109 kit with a M109G (early) option in the box.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2017
Posted by Armor_Aficionado on Friday, December 28, 2018 3:15 AM
Hey Sarge, I recently completed a build of Italeri's M-109 kit, was pretty pleased with how it turned out (only a couple of minor fit issues with the running gear/tracks, otherwise an easy build). I know the kit allows it to be built as at least an A1 or A2, it might be able to be built as an A-nothing as well, as there are a bunch of extra parts on the sprues that are not called out in the instructions. You can check out my build over on the Modern Armor Group Build thread.

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, November 30, 2018 11:44 PM

Very interesting ideas CapnMac82... I’m back at the drawing board on this diorama. Gino sent me some great detailed information on building a Vietnam era M109 with the right interior equipment. The article below from Boresight magazine, January/February 2015 has everything I need to know to make an AFV Club M109A2 into an M109.

From Shep Paine's books I learned a theme is key to a good diorama. My theme for this diorama will be ordnance delivery for an M109 in battle. It will include an AFV Club M54A2 6x6 truck and men unloading ammunition under fire.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, November 30, 2018 11:17 PM

Sergeant
need to rethink my concept of a diorama,

Given that vets are often surrounded by non-vets, providing context can sometimes be cruical.

Your idea of "firebase as seen from above" is valid for giving a sense of scale and context--something books, videos, still photographs often don't.

However, both Gino and Bill bring up good points.

At larger scales, the vast emptiness between combat units can be daunting to make a diorama of.

However, there might be a solution.  Build a firebase to scale, but in small scale, like, say 1/72 or 1/87 at reduced detail, but with enough detail to suggest the intricacies in real life.  Then pick ot one or two (even three) "scenes" from that small-scale dio to detail up in 1/35, where you can get the finicky "bits' to show.

Could stand up the small scale version as a "backdrop" of sorts on the base cabinet.

36" x 24" scales to 261' x 174' (±80 x 50m) at 1/87 scale, so, maybe having to move down to wargaming scale might be needfull.

Such are the dilemma of scale.  At 1/300 wargaming scale, a 4km tank versus tank display would need to be 13m wide (this is why naval wargaming uses 1/1250scale and needs gymnasium floors--30,000yards is 72' at 1/1250, so scale distances are often halved for play purposes).

At least that's my 2¢.  I'll admit to being an outlier, I find fewer vehicls in dios are more realistic--but, I also spent time getting people to stop bunching up on my beach, as the work was hard enough without drawing fire.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, November 30, 2018 12:06 AM

Thanks for the comments. I had a career in SF design teaming highrises. Now I live in Carmel and am retired so I have the time to read more history.

My company website is still up- debranicholsdesign.com

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, November 29, 2018 10:51 PM

GMorrison

And the land artillery of the US Civil War was a result of the Napoleanic wars.

Naval arty really made advances in the 19th Century. Rifled guns on swivel mounts.

 

Bill I found the Shep Pain book you suggested and placed an order on Amazon. It sounds like we have a common interest in military history as well as architecture. My particular field of architectural design was residential, mainly renovations and remodeling of 1920’s and 30’s American Craftsman, French and Dutch Colonial. I love old buildings especially the type you have around San Francisco. My construction experience was commercial, medical and manufacturing Buildings. I specialized in building envelopes, roofing and foundation systems.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, November 29, 2018 9:57 PM

And the land artillery of the US Civil War was a result of the Napoleanic wars.

Naval arty really made advances in the 19th Century. Rifled guns on swivel mounts.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, November 29, 2018 9:47 PM

HeavyArty

Any of Shep's books that deal with armor/ground vehicles is fine.  They all had great examples.

As to the MLRS, I was on cannon (M109A6 Paladins), MLRS, FireFinder Radars, and a Fire Supporter throughout my carreer.  I don't know about naval missiles.  The MLRS was developed in the '70s and fielded in the early '80s though.  The rockets for them are 300mm in diameter if that helps.

 

Gino, the advances in technology from my time to your’s with M109‘s is very interesting and the Multiple Launch Rocket System looks like the same concept. If we consider how far artillery has come since the US Civil War, with most of the advancements taking place in the last 50-years it is amazing. 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, November 29, 2018 9:27 PM

"How to Build" is the one. It's been reissued at least once. I have a copy of the latest one that Mike Thompson sent me, but I don't think much changed.

Gino's dio is pretty great, please excuse me but I'm not a suck-up.

First of all, it's a model of something you can bet the dog on that you've never seen a model of before- the reload of an MR launcher.

So that's the story, and now he's got you. How did they get those pallets of rockets off of the transport and into the launcher?

What does a really lethal weapon look like when it's down? 

And what is down range?

 

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, November 29, 2018 8:15 PM

Any of Shep's books that deal with armor/ground vehicles is fine.  They all had great examples.

As to the MLRS, I was on cannon (M109A6 Paladins), MLRS, FireFinder Radars, and a Fire Supporter throughout my carreer.  I don't know about naval missiles.  The MLRS was developed in the '70s and fielded in the early '80s though.  The rockets for them are 300mm in diameter if that helps.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, November 29, 2018 6:26 PM

Bill and Gino, which of Shep Pain’s books are you thinking about? He has several on building dioramas.

Harold

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, November 29, 2018 4:29 PM

Gino, was the M270 MLRS what you worked on in the Army? Are the ballistic missiles they fire similar to 1960’s RIM-24 Tartar (T-SAM’s) or RIM-66 standard missiles? My first four-years in the service was onboard the USS John King DDG3 that had a MARK 11 guided missile launching system.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, November 29, 2018 7:24 AM

I have been on the receiving end of incoming fire (Iraqi D-30, 122mm) and can attest that it is not fun. 

Good advice from Bill.  Take a look at what Shep Paine has done and you will see what I mean.  I think smaller dios of each piece with maybe an ammo truck conducting resupply, or the gun in action would be enough to convey what you are looking for.

As an example, here is one I did of an M270 in Desert Storm getting a visit from the BC during a reload.  This one is about 12" x 14".  Sorry for the crappy pic, but it was a while ago.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, November 29, 2018 12:47 AM

If you haven't already, grab a copy of Shep's book.

It's sort of old think, but his artistry endures.

The trick to a good diorama is to engage the viewer with a story. That starts like all good stories with an opening line that just grabs attention and then leads to an unfolding of layers of detail.

Nothing kills a diorama faster than having initial objects of interest on a comparable scale or prominence that compete with each other.

Building a diorama that replicates an aerial view of a bunch of acres just can't be an improvement on a photo of same.

You'll enjoy this more if you focus on a story line. Your redlegs operating a gun is enough to keep you modeling for a year.

Scatter around a ammo bunker and a observation post nearby.

Shep also taught a valuable lesson; get the viewer to actively imagine what's off picture.

Thank you for your service. 

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Thursday, November 29, 2018 12:17 AM

HeavyArty

I personally think smaller is better.  Huge dios with lots of open space (to replicate actual distances between pieces) tend to get boring as the open space draws the eye.  I think a few smaller dios with a couple vehicles each, with lots of details, is a better option.  Just my 2 cents .

 

Gino, I had dinner tonight with a Marine Captain, a Master Sergeant, a Gunnery Sergeant and two Staff Sergeants from the Marines 3rd Division that we’re in the Vietnam War. All were involved with artillery at some point in the war. They explained that one of the most frightening experiences for artillerymen and tanks crews is that when you fire, especially at night the enemy knows your location and if you can’t move and they have the fire-power the next round you hear is an 88 or some other projectile incoming.

They agree with you that a fire base viewed from a helicopter is not nearly as important to them unless it was taking them out of harms way. But to be in a dugout when large caliber projectiles are exploding all around you is an experience they will never forget.

I need to rethink my concept of a diorama, so that when a veteran sees it he remember how good it feels to be alive.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 6:31 PM

I personally think smaller is better.  Huge dios with lots of open space (to replicate actual distances between pieces) tend to get boring as the open space draws the eye.  I think a few smaller dios with a couple vehicles each, with lots of details, is a better option.  Just my 2 cents .

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 2:03 PM

HeavyArty

Wow! That is going to a be a really big dio.  Good luck on it.

 

Gino, I have studied dioramas for months. Some modelers suggest dioramas should be as small as possible, even cutting a vehicle in half to emphasis only the figures or message convyed in the diorama.

Other modelers seem to emphasize the vehicle(s) with figures almost secondary in the diorama. My purpose is to replicate a fire base in Vietnam as you would expect to see it flying in by helicopter. There would be gun placements on the ground, support vehicles, people and buildings, or dugouts and tents with boxes, sandbags and oil drums in the area.

I don’t want this 1/35 scale diorama to be any larger that 30” wide and 36” long because it needs to be freestanding with a 36” high base cabinet. The finished diorama can only be a small portion of the overall fire base in 1/35 scale because of the size of each gun. It will be on display in veterans hospitals and social clubs of veterans organizations like the American Legion and VFW.

It will hopefully become another way of remembering what our veterans went though in the Vietnam War and in that respect a way of honoring the ones who gave their life and the families who lost their loved ones.

Any thoughts you have about the concept of seeing a fire base from a helicopter would be appreciate.

Harold

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Monday, November 26, 2018 7:11 PM

Wow! That is going to a be a really big dio.  Good luck on it.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: https://app.photobucket.com/u/HeavyArty

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, November 25, 2018 6:23 PM

 

After considerable looking for a picture to model a diorama I have chosen this aerial photograph of a US Marine combat base in 1968 during the Vietnam War. The bloody battle of Khe Sanh lasted 77 days while the base was under siege from the North Vietnamese Army.

It has all the elements I wanted. However, I will only have room in the diorama for one M107 and M109 self-propelled howitzer, one M54A2 cargo truck and M151A2 MUTT with trailer.

The terrain will be relatively simple since the area was devoid of trees and water, but it will represent what many Marine and Army veterans remember about a Firebase in Vietnam.

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
Posted by GlennH on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 3:09 PM

Sergeant

 

 
GlennH

Just reading the post. On Flickr just go to 'share' copy the BB code and paste it in the text. Forget that little window above that says 'insert/edit image'

 Army Viet Nam chinook by Glenn Hanson, on Flickr

 

 

 

Glenn, there is some outstanding pictures on your Flickr link, are they pictures of your experience in country, or posting from many Flickr contributor?

 

Harold

 

 

They are slide scans. So many to do still. Thanks Pawell.

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 1:04 PM

Glenn has been there, done that! He has really beautiful photos in his collection, a real treasure.

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 12:21 PM

GlennH

Just reading the post. On Flickr just go to 'share' copy the BB code and paste it in the text. Forget that little window above that says 'insert/edit image'

 Army Viet Nam chinook by Glenn Hanson, on Flickr

 

Glenn, there is some outstanding pictures on your Flickr link, are they pictures of your experience in country, or posting from many Flickr contributor?

Harold

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
Posted by GlennH on Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:32 AM

Just reading the post. On Flickr just go to 'share' copy the BB code and paste it in the text. Forget that little window above that says 'insert/edit image'

 Army Viet Nam chinook by Glenn Hanson, on Flickr

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    December 2010
  • From: Salem, Oregon
Posted by 1943Mike on Monday, November 19, 2018 12:04 PM

My thought as to why FineScale doesn't allow direct posting of pictures from one's computer is that the volume would require more or larger capacity servers. Just guessing of course.

Mike

"Le temps est un grand maître, mais malheureusement, il tue tous ses élèves."

Hector Berlioz

  • Member since
    November 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Sunday, November 18, 2018 9:14 AM
Hi All, been away for a while here. I'll try Flikr or however that's spelled, but on other sites I participate in, one can load from the desktop. Maybe they should think of making that an option here. It's certainly MUCH easier. Cheers! Ron
  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Friday, November 16, 2018 3:01 PM

1943Mike

Harold,

After being very ***ed off about Photobucket's decision to ransom photos, I tried Flickr and am content with it. So far, as a free image hosting site, it's been just fine for me.

I wrote a little tutorial about a year ago for someone on FineScale. I'm not sure if it helped him or not. However, here's the link to my little screen shot tutorial in the Testing Forum:

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/feedback_help_and_testing/f/43/t/173158.aspx

I hope it helps.

 

Mike, I finally sat down at my wife's lap top and followed your instructions for posting from Flickr and it works perfectly... One additional comment; however, to adjust the size of my posting to fit the space available I tried different dimentions. The one that worked best for this posting was 500 x - - -, with  second number space left blank and constrain proportions checked.

Additional note: I have tried every way I know to post images from Flickr.com with my iPad and could not make it work. But it is very straight forward using a lap top with Windows 10 and Mike’s instructions.

Harold

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Far Northern CA
Posted by mrmike on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 11:56 AM

Hi all;

If anyone is interested in the Italeri kit, there's one on eBay today starting at $14.95 + $20 shipping from Canada, listed as new. Look for listings by:

selleronbobbybay

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Tuesday, October 30, 2018 11:26 AM

1943Mike

Harold,

I sent you a PM 5 days ago. Did you receive it?

I now realize that my tutorial may not be much good for those of you who post using a smart phone or who use a Mac. I did the tutorial based on what I use .. a Windows 10 desktop. Nonetheless, it may help somebody.

 

Good morning Mike, please check for a reply to you private message.

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