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Taking on a Tiger 2 near Arnhem

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  • Member since
    March 2014
Taking on a Tiger 2 near Arnhem
Posted by BarrettDuke on Saturday, March 2, 2019 9:10 AM

I've been watching the recreation of the Battle of Arnhem entitled "Theirs Is the Glory." It's truly remarkable to see a re-enactment in that very city just a year after the real thing. I've been especially impressed with the equipment they show, including the use of authentic German tanks. They have shots of a Panther and a Tiger. And then about 54 minutes into the film there is a picture of a burning German tank in Oosterbeek that I think is a Tiger 2. Below is a video clip. My guess is that they reignited the hulk of the Tiger 2 as it still sat there after the war. Can anyone confirm? Following the video clip is a description of the incredible heroic effort of a couple men who took the tank on and defeated it. What an amazing story! Looks like a great opportunity for a diorama if accurate. Does anyone here have more information about the destruction of this tank?Thanks. Barrett

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-0xyNpi3cE

http://www.defendingarnhem.com/schpzabt506.htm

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, March 2, 2019 9:15 AM

Deffinetly a Tiger II. Doesn't appear to be any Zimm on it. Could be a tank captured later in the war and moved there for the purpose. Also noticed that the muzzle brake is missing. Can't see any markings so hard to tell any info on it.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, March 2, 2019 9:17 AM

Did an online search and found this photo. Look familiar.

Also found this. Maybe it was destroyed during the battle. Strange that it doesn't seem to have any Zimm seeing as the unit had them in August, or am i not seeing it.

http://www.pegasusarchive.org/arnhem/Photos2/Pic_WeverstraatSP_2.htm

 

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, March 2, 2019 9:20 AM

Deleted

 

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by Ixion on Saturday, March 2, 2019 11:05 AM

This 3rd company, sPzAbt. 506 Tiger II, attached to KGr. Von Allwörden, was knocked out on Monday, September 25th, 1944, near the Klompenschool in Beneden-Weverstraat. Approximately 30 photos of it are known, (good luck trying to find them online), however 4 can be found on page 60 of Concord's; German Armored Units at Arnhem. The tank indeed has Zimmerit, as it should, although most has burned off, only small pieces remaining on the front and right side. The Tigers of the 3rd co. carried black numbers with yellow outlines, the Balkenkreuz was painted in the center of the turret sides with the 3 on one side and the vehicle number, (01-14) to the right of the cross. This vehicle was manufactured before June 1944. One impact blew-off the right track. What appears to be two closely-spaced impacts blew a large hole in the left side of the turret, near the lower edge towards the rear. The actual vehicle number is apparently not known. 

Accounts of it's destruction range from a 6-pounder, a mortar round, to several PIAT rounds. The most detailed account describes a combination of a 6-pound AT gun and the PIATS.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, March 2, 2019 1:36 PM

That would explain it, thanks Ixion. Should have thought of that.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
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Posted by BarrettDuke on Saturday, March 2, 2019 2:10 PM

Hard to believe they sacrificed that tank for what was essentially a mop-up operation by then. And the positioning looks really stupid. It's firing over it's weak rear rather than having its thick frontal armor facing forward. Are there any explanations for why it ended up in that position?

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, March 2, 2019 2:22 PM

If you look at the pic in the website you posted, the gun of faceing forward left. That may have been the direction the enemy were in. The article says that the track was hit by the 75mm, explaining the missing right track. Once this happened, the tank was immobile and would be easy to outflank by the PIAT team in a built up area. I am guessing the tank had no Infantry support.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    March 2014
Posted by BarrettDuke on Saturday, March 2, 2019 4:15 PM

Thanks, Bish. You can almost imagine the crew desperately trying to save their tank. There's no telling how many allied armored vehicles and crews were spared later because that Tiger 2 was taken out.

  • Member since
    December 2012
Posted by Ixion on Saturday, March 2, 2019 4:32 PM

The various photos of this vehicle show the turret in a different position, someone obviously got inside and decided to test their strength by traversing the turret by hand. The tow cables were installed as if they attempted recovery. At some time later they were removed. 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, March 2, 2019 4:40 PM

Ixion

The various photos of this vehicle show the turret in a different position, someone obviously got inside and decided to test their strength by traversing the turret by hand. The tow cables were installed as if they attempted recovery. At some time later they were removed. 

 

Thats interesting as i was thinking the Germans may have moved it to the position its in. They held the ground after the battle. The tank sems to badly damaged to recover, maybe just salvage parts like the muzzle brake and move it out the way. The right track seems to be missing completly, do you know if its seen in any of the other pics.

The Germans were well known for recoverying vehicles if they could, and Arnheim was not liberated until April 45, so they had plenty of time. This tank must have been a right off.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
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Posted by Ixion on Saturday, March 2, 2019 6:19 PM

Here's a rather aggrandised account of it's demise;

 

Lieutenant Donaldson was the gun position officer of C Troop of 2 Battery. At 1100 hrs on 25th September his Troop was attacked by a Tiger tank and a self-propelled gun at about 150 yards range. His troop at once came under heavy machine gun fire and suffered such heavy casualties to the gun detachments that it became impossible to produce effective fire from his guns. Nothing daunted Lieutenant Donaldson, taking Lance-Bombardier Dickson with him, manned a 6-pounder anti-tank gun whose crew had been killed but which was in a position about 100 yards from his Command Post. To reach his gun Lieutenant Donaldson had to cross open ground swept by enemy fire. Together with Lance-Bombardier Dickson he brought the gun into action and fired eight or nine shots at the tank until the gun was destroyed by a direct hit which blew him off the gun temporarily stunning him. When he came to himself, Lieutenant Donaldson, together with Lance-Bombardier Dickson, made his way under heavy fire back to No.1 Gun of C Troop whose detachment had been killed and bringing the gun back into action fired four shots at the tank without effect. Armour Piercing ammunition being then expended, Lieutenant Donaldson, still under heavy fire went to find some more, covered by Lance-Bombardier Dickson firing High Explosive. He collected three rounds of Armour Piercing and two of these were fired without effect before his gun jammed. Lance-Bombardier Dickson then went back to the wagon lines and fetched a PIAT with which Lieutenant Donaldson attempted to engage the tank but without success. The whole of this action took place under heavy fire from the Tiger tank and the self-propelled gun and under small arms fire from enemy infantry who had infiltrated into the woods surrounding the position. Lieutenant Donaldson then withdrew to 3 Battery's position as enemy infantry were occupying the gun positions. Nevertheless later that day he returned to the position and ensured that no wounded men of his Troop remained on the position and removed the sights and breech blocks of all the guns not already destroyed. When the order to withdraw was received he led the remains of his Troop back across the river. Lieutenant Donaldson displayed great courage and determination in the face of the enemy of the highest order and it was largely due to his indifference to danger that the enemy failed to press home their attack beyond the outskirts of 2 Battery's positions and on to our last line of defence in that area.

 

 AFAIK, the right track was the first thing to go, other photos show it laying in front of the tank.

https://www.stiwotforum.nl/viewtopic.php?p=173325

 

I agree that this was probably a total write-off, not much value in a burned out hulk. However, in the Concord book, the author mentions the tow cables being attached, then removed and one of the photos show the right cable trailing out in front of the vehicle. I'm at a loss to explain how this would have happened.

 

A shot showing the turret damage;

 

 

A close-up of the turret, being examined by Polish soldiers;

  

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, March 3, 2019 3:41 AM

That makes it clear that it was destroyed in situ. The Germans often had the tow cables attached to the forward towing points with the cable laid back along the vehicles, as in the left side. We used to do the same on our Warriors, helps speed up recovery.

ON the pic in that link, i can't see the second tow cable. But given the position of the house to the front, it could not have been recovered that way.

The position of the right track suggests to me it may have been moving forward when hit.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    June 2006
Posted by Tankluver on Tuesday, March 12, 2019 5:15 AM

Dragon has a Porsche tiger II kit with markings for Arnhem if i remember correctly 

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