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M113A1 decal options?

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  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
M113A1 decal options?
Posted by GlennH on Friday, February 7, 2020 10:16 PM

I just began decaling the AFV Club APC and very curious about the options. Now I understand that various units and batteries, etc added their own non reg flourishes to their equipment. What I am wondering is the the glaring discrepencies on these options that I never noticed in the field. Most all options show the APC with the unit ID and vehicle number in the usiual places . The glaring difference is that three different units are displaying the Army star three different ways. Maybe these instructions are off but I would think certain markings were regulation no matter what the unit was.

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, February 8, 2020 11:23 AM

The regs change over time. And various commands may add their specific requirements for command and control or other purposes.

And units in combat may deviate from regs for tactical purposes. Those big white stars do draw attention and make great aiming points... field combat units tend to look different than peacetime garrison units.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, February 8, 2020 11:38 AM

Some units added a lot of flair and other markings and others sticck to the book. I guess it depends on what the chain of command allows.

I know removing those original white markings was not fun.

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
Posted by GlennH on Saturday, February 8, 2020 1:42 PM

Ok so I guess the various divisions, brigades etc had more say in the elemental layout than I had thought. Thanks.

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, February 8, 2020 2:39 PM

Yes, the units would have some say. Especially in combat. Look how the star on this 113 is covered up. 

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, February 9, 2020 5:54 PM

That's most likely sticker residue from peeling off the white star.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, February 9, 2020 6:00 PM

Rob Gronovius
I know removing those original white markings was not fun.

The level of PPE being used is fascinating, at least from a modern perspective.

  • Member since
    May 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Sunday, February 9, 2020 6:38 PM

Hello Cap'n!

You mean stuff like respirators and so on, right?

Have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Sunday, February 9, 2020 6:59 PM
Glenn, your question got me thinking, so I went through a book I have called 'Mounted Combat in Vietnam' by General Donn A. Starry that details tactical maneuver forces fighting while mounted in either ground combat vehicles or armed Army aircraft. It mentions the M113 starting on page 21 regarding their use in the Mekong Delta through the end of the war. No where in the 100 or so black and white pictures do I see a star on any combat vehicle. There are stars on service vehicles like an M54A2 5-ton truck, but very few regulation marking on combat vehicles. Rob's article talks about removing marking when a vehicle is pattern painted, but it looks to me like the markings were removed even without camouflage paint.
 
Harold

 

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
Posted by GlennH on Monday, February 10, 2020 10:14 AM

Interesting. I've forgotten more than I remember and only once do I recal seeing APC's when they were rattling past us out on a patrol. Now in that picture you posted you can see the star mudded up. I have a Flickr contact that has hundreds of APC photos from RVN. I'll have to check his stuff. That book sounds interesting!

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
Posted by GlennH on Monday, February 10, 2020 10:25 AM

https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippo132/

Found his page. Might just be a great referance for Viet Nam vehicles. The APC's are a mix of star and no star.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippo132/

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, February 10, 2020 3:22 PM

GlennH

https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippo132/

Found his page. Might just be a great referance for Viet Nam vehicles. The APC's are a mix of star and no star.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/zippo132/

 

Wow great pictures! Here is a link to the book I mentioned, it's in PDF format (265 pages - slow to load):  https://history.army.mil/html/books/090/90-17-1/CMH_Pub_90-17-1.pdf

I think you have the right answer regarding the Army Star.

Harold

  • Member since
    April 2016
  • From: N. Burbs of ChiKawgo
Posted by GlennH on Monday, February 10, 2020 5:15 PM

Excellent! Thanks. I checked Amazon and too pricy for me.

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    September 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Monday, February 10, 2020 8:38 PM

If anyone is looking for a reference book on Vietnam era armor check out 'Mounted Combat in Vietnam' by General Donn A. Starry.

Like Glenn said the paperback and hardcover are expensive, but if you don't mind eBooks it's not too bad. I've not read the entire book, but I can tell you it details with the use of armor in Vietnam from an Army generals point of view.

Amazon: Kindle version $2.99, Paperback $19.59 and Hardcover $49.95

Barnes & Noble eBook $2.99 or download a PDF copy for free:

https://history.army.mil/html/books/090/90-17-1/CMH_Pub_90-17-1.pdf

Harold

 
 

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